How influenced are you by price?

[Steve Lefkowicz]

In the very lengthy thread on head-fi about Schiit Audio, there is a running theme (pretty common elsewhere too) that audiophiles are more influenced by price and looks than actual sound. I don’t buy into that claim overall, and feel they are setting up a strawman to have to have someone to put down so they can feel better about their choices. However, I do believe there is some amount of influence as pertains to the claim.

So here is the question – how influenced are you by a product’s price? Will you automatically not be interested in a product if it costs significantly less than what you already have? Is there a cognitive dissonance in the price/performance ratio that prevents some people from considering certain products if the price is too low?

Would any of you upgrade sound quality in your system if someone came with a better sounding product for half the price of what you currently have? At a quarter of the price? A tenth?

I’m not passing judgment, just curious. I had some folks question me when I upgraded my system switching from a $3000 set of speakers to a set that only cost $1000, and again when I swapped out cables that were a couple hundred dollars each for a set that were $49 each. Both did result in improvements in my system.

Granted, part of my enjoyment and focus in this hobby is hunting down those high value bargains, and getting the best sound I can for least amount of money. I consider it a challenge. However, I certainly understand that the best gear is likely to cost a fairly high price. My question is about once you reach the “expensive stuff” how important the expense is in determining your perception of quality?

[Analog21]

There is a threshold for me that certain components/gear should be in the discussion of quality perception. I must admit, on some of those components, the gap is narrowing. Cartridges are good example. Cheaper moving coils are sounding far better and can compete with carts 2-3x their price IMHO. The major problem we will always have with being able to judge a component impartially is what it is paired with in an audition. Typically, components are put together at similar price points. You will never see a $3000 amp with $30000 speakers, etc. One never knows how well or how much a bargain something is in terms of its sonic performance because it is always a slave to the rest of the system it is auditioned with. I would love if more audio show events or demo rooms paired gear at different price points. But the margins are bigger for high price items, so it comes back to what will make dealers more money. This is a loaded topic for sure. I'm sure there are tons of great products that are cheaper that can outperform more expensive components, but the industry is not effectively set up for that to be realized. It is also requires more brick and mortar stores which are not in many cities or markets, and requires dealers/distributors to have multiple products and larger inventories on hand to do A/B demos. There is far more supply from worldwide manufactures than there are dealers to supply and purchase them. Just my two cents.

[cpp]

I'm not against someone spending huge sums of their money on awesome speakers,amps, TT's and cartridges or crazy DACS good for them and I'm happy for them, but when people make it a point to downplay someones system because it doesn't meet someone elses standards, those people are not in this hobby for the enjoyment of it, in my opinion that's is freaking out of control ego.

Also, I love it when people ask for advice on equipment and provide a budget and 90% of the "advisers on a forum" seem to push the limit and go over the budget bringing up comments, like it will look better, and sound better (heck how do they know have they heard the OP's system in their room) . These days, it seems like price is a never ending topic on about every audio forum in existence..

Heck the only thing I have paid full price for was my speakers that I bought a long time ago and a pair of headphones, everything else, I'm sorry it was used. .

As Analog21 notes, "this is a loaded topic for sure "

[Alrainbow]

In the very lengthy thread on head-fi about Schiit Audio, there is a running theme (pretty common elsewhere too) that audiophiles are more influenced by price and looks than actual sound. I don’t buy into that claim overall, and feel they are setting up a strawman to have to have someone to put down so they can feel better about their choices. However, I do believe there is some amount of influence as pertains to the claim.

So here is the question – how influenced are you by a product’s price? Will you automatically not be interested in a product if it costs significantly less than what you already have? Is there a cognitive dissonance in the price/performance ratio that prevents some people from considering certain products if the price is too low?

Would any of you upgrade sound quality in your system if someone came with a better sounding product for half the price of what you currently have? At a quarter of the price? A tenth?

I’m not passing judgment, just curious. I had some folks question me when I upgraded my system switching from a $3000 set of speakers to a set that only cost $1000, and again when I swapped out cables that were a couple hundred dollars each for a set that were $49 each. Both did result in improvements in my system.

Granted, part of my enjoyment and focus in this hobby is hunting down those high value bargains, and getting the best sound I can for least amount of money. I consider it a challenge. However, I certainly understand that the best gear is likely to cost a fairly high price. My question is about once you reach the “expensive stuff” how important the expense is in determining your perception of quality?

A very difficult answer. Of course I am influenced by prIce. I own an Msb dac hahahha a. I also own a lampi dac that is less then a 1/3 of its cost when new. Now what sounds better is my end game. My amps on my speakers are cheap old Aragon's so am I confused ? I too feel cheap is better and cost while tempting I think effects us all. I use Mogami gold mic bal interconnects not super cheap but not crazy neither.
So my answer is an embarrassing yes. Stupid I know but yes to a point of course.

[Rob]

Way back when The Mod squad was around, Joyce showed me a prototype signature line drive made specifically for the Asian market. same guts as the American version but in a upmarket chassis and more than twice the list price. Her Asian distributor demanded it because the reg version was "priced too modestly" for his customers. I think this is an example of the law of ostentatious consumption: not meant to fill any physical want, but to gratify the psychological craving for status and recognition from others.*

*any resemblance to actual persons on this forum, is purely coincidental

[mep]

Way back when The Mod squad was around, Joyce showed me a prototype signature line drive made specifically for the Asian market. same guts as the American version but in a upmarket chassis and more than twice the list price. Her Asian distributor demanded it because the reg version was "priced too modestly" for his customers. I think this is an example of the law of ostentatious consumption: not meant to fill any physical want, but to gratify the psychological craving for status and recognition from others.*

*any resemblance to actual persons on this forum, is purely coincidental

But now we are getting into another viewpoint which becomes world-wide in the perception of value. Most of us know by now there are people-many people in parts of Asia that have incredible sums of disposable income to spend on stereo gear and the reality of the market that caters to the wealthy there is that if components aren't priced high enough, they won't be taken seriously by the local cognoscenti.

Let's face it, we can be delusional and think that if we spend "X" amount of money on our system, it will be as good as any system regardless of total system cost. The real truth is that there are real improvements to be made in the sound across the frequency spectrum as the cost of components goes up, but the cost vs. sound improvement is not linear.

Yeah, I suspect there's a lot of "my stylus is bigger than your stylus" in Asian markets just as found on certain on-line forums here.

[Rob]

that's why the 14" tonearm came about, it was inspired by John Holmes. I heard VPI is working on their 14 incher, perhaps Harry should name it the "Harry Holmes" Memorial 'arm or maybe "Hairy [sic] Palms"

[MylesBAstor]

Or the Viagra version?

[MylesBAstor]

In the very lengthy thread on head-fi about Schiit Audio, there is a running theme (pretty common elsewhere too) that audiophiles are more influenced by price and looks than actual sound. I don’t buy into that claim overall, and feel they are setting up a strawman to have to have someone to put down so they can feel better about their choices. However, I do believe there is some amount of influence as pertains to the claim.

So here is the question – how influenced are you by a product’s price? Will you automatically not be interested in a product if it costs significantly less than what you already have? Is there a cognitive dissonance in the price/performance ratio that prevents some people from considering certain products if the price is too low?

Would any of you upgrade sound quality in your system if someone came with a better sounding product for half the price of what you currently have? At a quarter of the price? A tenth?

I’m not passing judgment, just curious. I had some folks question me when I upgraded my system switching from a $3000 set of speakers to a set that only cost $1000, and again when I swapped out cables that were a couple hundred dollars each for a set that were $49 each. Both did result in improvements in my system.

Granted, part of my enjoyment and focus in this hobby is hunting down those high value bargains, and getting the best sound I can for least amount of money. I consider it a challenge. However, I certainly understand that the best gear is likely to cost a fairly high price. My question is about once you reach the “expensive stuff” how important the expense is in determining your perception of quality?

I think this is an extremely complex question.

I'm influenced by whether or not I can afford it.

For instance, is it about price or really, value? You can have a 20k speaker with a 4x or 10x markup. Details that consumers are not always necessarily privy to.

Price can certainly give the designer more options in parts selection and build quality.

Then as things go up in price, the manufacturer often loses the advantage of buying parts in quantity.

I also think we need to look at electronics, speakers, etc. separately. For instance, as David talks about, a cartridge may rival a more expensive cartridge. But in a specific area, rarely across the board. Maybe it rivals in tone but not in dynamics or bass or transparency. Same goes for electronics for one thing additional cost brings is a better/bigger power supply.

And so on.

[Rob]

"I'm influenced by whether or not I can afford it. " I don't care who you are, everyone's got a gag reflex when it comes to price. I hate paying more for gas when its 30 cents a gallon cheaper at a station a block away, it doesn't mean I can't afford the the higher price. I guess this falls under the law of substitution. The Bugatti Chiron is nearly $3 Mil, im a car guy and don't lament the fact for one second I'll never own one, i have no desire to even at $300K

[MylesBAstor]

There is a threshold for me that certain components/gear should be in the discussion of quality perception. I must admit, on some of those components, the gap is narrowing. Cartridges are good example. Cheaper moving coils are sounding far better and can compete with carts 2-3x their price IMHO. The major problem we will always have with being able to judge a component impartially is what it is paired with in an audition. Typically, components are put together at similar price points. You will never see a $3000 amp with $30000 speakers, etc. One never knows how well or how much a bargain something is in terms of its sonic performance because it is always a slave to the rest of the system it is auditioned with. I would love if more audio show events or demo rooms paired gear at different price points. But the margins are bigger for high price items, so it comes back to what will make dealers more money. This is a loaded topic for sure. I'm sure there are tons of great products that are cheaper that can outperform more expensive components, but the industry is not effectively set up for that to be realized. It is also requires more brick and mortar stores which are not in many cities or markets, and requires dealers/distributors to have multiple products and larger inventories on hand to do A/B demos. There is far more supply from worldwide manufactures than there are dealers to supply and purchase them. Just my two cents.

Actually that makes sense to me because it would truly reveal the upside of the gear as opposed to auditioning the $3000 component in a system it would normally be used in. Same holds true for cartridges too. Like when I had the $1500 Charisma cartridge in my reference system. It truly didn't embarrass itself in a big system. Except in the case say of a $10K cartridge in a $1000 arm. There is makes no sense. It would help the consumer determine if the component is the real deal.

Yep - a great cartridge won't make an arm great, but it can work the other way around.

[david k]

In the very lengthy thread on head-fi about Schiit Audio, there is a running theme (pretty common elsewhere too) that audiophiles are more influenced by price and looks than actual sound. I don’t buy into that claim overall, and feel they are setting up a strawman to have to have someone to put down so they can feel better about their choices. However, I do believe there is some amount of influence as pertains to the claim.

So here is the question – how influenced are you by a product’s price? Will you automatically not be interested in a product if it costs significantly less than what you already have? Is there a cognitive dissonance in the price/performance ratio that prevents some people from considering certain products if the price is too low?c

Would any of you upgrade sound quality in your system if someone came with a better sounding product for half the price of what you currently have? At a quarter of the price? A tenth?

I’m not passing judgment, just curious. I had some folks question me when I upgraded my system switching from a $3000 set of speakers to a set that only cost $1000, and again when I swapped out cables that were a couple hundred dollars each for a set that were $49 each. Both did result in improvements in my system.

Granted, part of my enjoyment and focus in this hobby is hunting down those high value bargains, and getting the best sound I can for least amount of money. I consider it a challenge. However, I certainly understand that the best gear is likely to cost a fairly high price. My question is about once you reach the “expensive stuff” how important the expense is in determining your perception of quality?

There's no such thing as cost is too low Steve value is important and everyone knows that price doesn't guarantee quality, specially in high end where there's more expensive crap than there is cheap crap. I only care about sound quality favorable reviews cache or high cost don't influence my decision, it either sounds right or it doesn't but I do care about value and fantasy pricing is a negative.

david

[Guest]

... Would any of you upgrade sound quality in your system if someone came with a better sounding product for half the price of what you currently have? At a quarter of the price? A tenth? ...

Maybe. But I also want reliability, quality build, responsive customer service, and the liklihood the maker will be around in five years. Depends on how much better sounding, but yes its a big factor. There was a time I coulda bought more expensive amps and opted for the Quicksilver 8417s.

[MylesBAstor]

Great points!

[Quint]

To be frank, in the past, yes, I was greatly influenced by price. I think it's a pretty natural and frequent occurrence in this hobby. Hell, if Component A costs $500 and Component B costs $10,000, the latter must be better, because the designers can stuff it with better parts and execute designs with fewer compromises. Right?

Of course, as we know, the answer isn't nearly that simple, for a multitude of reasons, many of which have already been identified in this thread. As I've become more experienced (and, god forbid, mature), it's become clear to me that matching components is IMHO the most important aspect of system-building. And it's not always about matching the most expensive to the most expensive. I've been down the road enough times now to know better than that. Of course, it took a LOT of hard (and expensive) lessons before I realized it.

My current system is far from the most elaborate or expensive I've built. Yet, in some key ways, it's the best I've put together. And that's because I put a lot of thought into it, and didn't always go for the most expensive this or that. I went with what made sense to me from a synergy perspective and a value perspective.

Anyhoo, that's my rather rambling opinion on the matter.

[MylesBAstor]

Great points!

[Dr.Ears]

Americans in general do not believe that they are getting good value unless they pay enough for it. I proved my hypothesis with real estate.
I had a house languish on the market for nearly two years at 1.25 million without a bid*, of course my RE agent said, 'WE" have to lower the price. I said, "you don't understand Americans. If, you want to remain my agent "WE" are raising the price to 1.5 million", 6 weeks later, I hit a 1.4 million dollar bid*.
* Note: On Wall Street you bid to buy and offer to sell because your customer could be going in either direction.

[Alrainbow]

One of my dacs is a lampi dac that sounds way above its price point and although it's looks have improved just a couple of years ago it did not. Look much beyond diy and yet in just two years it completely surpassed and dac that cost me three times it's price
cost is nkt tidied directly to performance but status is lol

[rbbert]

I'll bet that for most of us here, we simply want to get the best sound we can afford.

[Alrainbow]

The word best is alone part of the confusion on this topic.
Mid I were to consider to buy anything now. It would have to be heard in my setup after hesring it if possible Ina showroom first