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  • There's A Lot of Truth To This!

    http://www.audioresearch.com/Content.../Hierarchy.pdf

    I have certainly experienced more than once. For example, lesser priced cartridges may be better than one thinks because are usually used in inexpensive arms. No question this is true for speakers but what's the first thing they [above ground audio magazines or dealers] tell/advise audiophile's to do to improve the sound of their system? Buy new speakers.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
    -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

  • #2
    Good read.
    Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
    Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
    Tube Amplifier: New Audio Frontiers Ultimate 211 Special Edition Monoblocks
    SS Amplifier: Plinius SA-Reference
    Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
    Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
    Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
    Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge (w/ EM/IA 1:20 Silver Wire SUT)
    Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
    Vinyl Care: Furutech DF-2 LP Flattener - Degritter Ultrasonic & VPI Cyclone RCM
    Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
    Tape Stage: Doshi V.3 Tape Stage
    CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5
    Streamer/Server: Aurender N30SA, Ediscreation Silent Switch OCXO w/ Ediscreation Silver reference LAN cable
    DAC: Lampizator Golden Gate2

    Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
    Wire: Custom Furutech PC's + Audience Front Row IC's & Speaker Cables
    Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - DS Audio ION-001 Vinyl Ionizer - SRA Scuttle III Rack, Massif Audio Design, SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

    Comment


    • #3
      Myles, your point is well taken about sources. I see this particular example differently, it also demonstrates what PSB and Paul Barton can do for $280 retail. Few designers can pull this off Andrew Jones is another. It also goes to show what skillful use of engineering resources can accomplish (using SOTA facilities like the CNRC-NRC).

      Comment


      • #4
        and, on many of the fora, where that topic of priorities for purchase or upgrade come up, invariably, it is the speaker that wins by a landslide. It's really speaker and amp on one end,
        and kind of everything else on the other. How does one become a brand ambassador? Is it an appointed position?

        Comment


        • Rob
          Rob commented
          Editing a comment
          I also see a corollary between audiophiles that seek big and burly high power amps with car guys that seek bragging rights to engine size/Hp. I think much of rationale for this stuff is emotion driven by wants vs needs.

      • #5
        Originally posted by Bill Hart View Post
        and, on many of the fora, where that topic of priorities for purchase or upgrade come up, invariably, it is the speaker that wins by a landslide. It's really speaker and amp on one end,
        and kind of everything else on the other. How does one become a brand ambassador? Is it an appointed position?
        Must be an Italian or millennial thing Bill! 😇
        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
        ________________________________________

        -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
        -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
        -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

        Comment


        • #6
          I thought it was a great article. I have said before that we have all probably owned components that we didn't know how good they really were because of other issues in the chain.
          Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by mep View Post
            I thought it was a great article. I have said before that we have all probably owned components that we didn't know how good they really were because of other issues in the chain.
            I think the system is no better than the weakest link in the "chain". Although I have thought that the speaker is the most important in terms of hierarchy for many years now, there are good arguments for the opposite view about sources. In the end, everything is important. You can't have a great system without great speakers AND great sources... You need great everything... You want no compromises.
            Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
            Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
            Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
            Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
            Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
            Digital: Lumin Network Player with Lumin NAS
            Cables: Genesis Advanced Technologies/Absolute Fidelity Interface Interconnects, Speaker, Phono and Power
            A/C Power: Extensive System Upgrades, Sub-panel w/hard-wired power cables, and IsoTek Super Titan Passive Power Conditioning for Amplifiers
            Accessories: Custom Acrylic Equipment Stands, Klaudio Ultrasonic RCM

            Comment


            • #8
              All things being equal, one approach is to spend a good percentage of the budget on speakers. Then one can improve the upstream components over time. When that's done, you've maximized the speaker's potential and are ready to move onto the next set of speakers. It is interesting when you look at the system, an argument can be made that the the speakers are the most limited component (FR, resolution, dynamics, etc.). Thus speaker upgrades can if done correctly really produce big sonic changes.

              What sort of "rough" percentages should be allotted to individual components in the chain?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
              -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
              -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

              Comment


              • #9
                Its a never ending cycle of cash going somewhere and to someone if you let. Sooner or later you just have to stop and actually listen and enjoy what your hearing and buy music instead of gear...
                Chris
                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                Kef 201/2, Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE, Manley Chinook, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV20x2L, ExaSound e32, Acoustic Zen cables. (Office): Vincent SP331 Mkll, Quicksilver Pre, Lumin D1, (Ken Lau Signiture Edition PSU), Bryston BCD-1, Vapor Audio Breeze, WooAudio W6se,Questyle Audio CMA800R LCD-3,HD800s, HD600, Mr Speaker Ether C Flow,

                Comment


                • siddh
                  siddh commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hi Chris....I have more times than I can remember thought the end of the road had arrived, only to read of a new/improved tweak, or highly reviewed component/accessory that had me reach into money fold.
                  I have noticed some of the most revered mega-system owners continue to seek out that additional squeeze.
                  I feel my system has reached a level well beyond anything imagined when I first entered the endless endeavor. Yet, I often read the blogs and audio show results; attend Axpona, often tempted to upgrade.

                  The expansion of lp purchases is an issue all it's own...another kind of addiction.

              • #10
                Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                What sort of "rough" percentages should be allotted to individual components in the chain?
                Interesting question, and what they "should" be, I haven't a clue. But it was an interesting exercise none the less, when I broke my own reference system down that way. Some of it is a little surprising but here it is (based on retail prices):
                13.3% - Amplification
                6.7% - Line Stage
                7.3% - Phono Stage
                20.6% - Analog Source(s)
                10.2% - Digital Source(s)
                12.6% - Speakers
                24.0% - Power Conditioning, Cords & Cables
                5.2% - Isolation, Racks & Storage
                Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
                Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
                Tube Amplifier: New Audio Frontiers Ultimate 211 Special Edition Monoblocks
                SS Amplifier: Plinius SA-Reference
                Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
                Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
                Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
                Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge (w/ EM/IA 1:20 Silver Wire SUT)
                Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
                Vinyl Care: Furutech DF-2 LP Flattener - Degritter Ultrasonic & VPI Cyclone RCM
                Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
                Tape Stage: Doshi V.3 Tape Stage
                CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5
                Streamer/Server: Aurender N30SA, Ediscreation Silent Switch OCXO w/ Ediscreation Silver reference LAN cable
                DAC: Lampizator Golden Gate2

                Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
                Wire: Custom Furutech PC's + Audience Front Row IC's & Speaker Cables
                Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - DS Audio ION-001 Vinyl Ionizer - SRA Scuttle III Rack, Massif Audio Design, SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

                Comment


                • #11
                  Some great sounds can come from equipment that doesn't cost more than a person makes in a mouth,. It all depends on how to match up your equipment.
                  Chris
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------
                  Kef 201/2, Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE, Manley Chinook, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV20x2L, ExaSound e32, Acoustic Zen cables. (Office): Vincent SP331 Mkll, Quicksilver Pre, Lumin D1, (Ken Lau Signiture Edition PSU), Bryston BCD-1, Vapor Audio Breeze, WooAudio W6se,Questyle Audio CMA800R LCD-3,HD800s, HD600, Mr Speaker Ether C Flow,

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    What's the saying? You can put lipstick on a pig......

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                      All things being equal, one approach is to spend a good percentage of the budget on speakers. Then one can improve the upstream components over time. When that's done, you've maximized the speaker's potential and are ready to move onto the next set of speakers. It is interesting when you look at the system, an argument can be made that the the speakers are the most limited component (FR, resolution, dynamics, etc.). Thus speaker upgrades can if done correctly really produce big sonic changes.

                      What sort of "rough" percentages should be allotted to individual components in the chain?
                      I don't buy into priorities and formulae for this. You could argue it any way you want, from the Linn-- source first extreme-- to the notion that speakers are the transducers you hear and probably have the highest distortion, thus the most important to get right. I agree with the "weakest link" view, so it comes down to very individual priorities, what someone is starting with (assuming they already have some sort of system above a Sears fold-down record player), and where they plan to go with the system- digital only? phono requires a whole mess of stuff to get right, including a phono stage and arguably, good cable.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Bill Hart View Post
                        and, on many of the fora, where that topic of priorities for purchase or upgrade come up, invariably, it is the speaker that wins by a landslide. It's really speaker and amp on one end,
                        and kind of everything else on the other. How does one become a brand ambassador? Is it an appointed position?
                        From Dave!

                        "I’ve been representing ARC for so long and seem to do so many things around here that they couldn’t figure out what to call me (to my face) except Brand Ambassador."
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                        -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                        -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by cpp View Post
                          Some great sounds can come from equipment that doesn't cost more than a person makes in a mouth,. It all depends on how to match up your equipment.
                          Synergy is certainly an important consideration. At any and all price points.
                          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                          ________________________________________

                          -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                          -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                          -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                          Comment

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