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  • Is it real or is it....

    Sorry for the quality of the picture, and the ugly carpeting. I do have tubes come to think of it, an old custom Fender Tweed. But this also answers any questions I have over live vs. any reproduction. The one on the right I bought in 1969, the tone has developed nicely.

  • #2
    Did anyone here ever attend one of Brian Cheney's live vs. recorded sessions at CES? Eye opening. Or actually ear opening. Even a guitar, done then in high-rez digital, couldn't get a simple instrument like a guitar with a modicum of dynamics. Now not knocking digital per se because that's what we had to listen to. A few of us thought wished Brian had brought a tape deck for comparison!
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

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    • #3
      Myles - A quality tape machine would help, say a properly refurbished Studer A37. But even with a direct microphone feed I don't see it happening. IMO the microphone is a weak link. It just isn't fast enough to react to all the dynamics, harmonics and resonances. It may not have sufficient dynamic range without compression. On violin I believe the situation is even worse with overloading and dynamic compression.

      A very, very good recording is possible, but lighting in a bottle?

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      • #4
        As someone who did a lot of sound effects and sound design time I will concur that mics are indeed a bottleneck. You need the right tool for the job and even then every mic has its inherent limitations. It always puzzles me when people say they use a raw mic feed instead of the real darned thing as a reference. If I actually scratched my head every time I heard that I'd have a huge bald spot to go with my receding hairline.

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        • #5
          Well, those sessions were like Shawn Olive's single speaker tests, set up to prove his hypothesis. The one I briefly caught even the playback system wasn't up to scratch. Like everything else to achieve anything above mediocre takes effort and expertise. I spent many hours recording with a friend, George Walker who besides being an incredible composer and musician is also an avid audiophile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Walker_(composer). You'd be surprised what's possible when you know what you're doing, even with digital. He used a combination of vintage tube and solid state Neumann mics and a Nagra digital R2R. This was all in his home studio, we were going straight from recording him play his music on his piano to hearing it back on his system and it was all there, no issues with dynamics either. And being a true professional he'd pick on things that we'll never notice down to hearing the exact technique he used while playing, the difference in the attack between left & right hands. Sometimes it wasn't apparent enough in the playback so we'd go and tweak things in the system and boom I could even hear it in the recording, it was all there. We have all those glorious recordings from 50's & 60's, it wasn't all luck.

          david

          Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
          Did anyone here ever attend one of Brian Cheney's live vs. recorded sessions at CES? Eye opening. Or actually ear opening. Even a guitar, done then in high-rez digital, couldn't get a simple instrument like a guitar with a modicum of dynamics. Now not knocking digital per se because that's what we had to listen to. A few of us thought wished Brian had brought a tape deck for comparison!
          Last edited by david k; 03-03-2016, 04:38 PM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Rust View Post
            Myles - A quality tape machine would help, say a properly refurbished Studer A37. But even with a direct microphone feed I don't see it happening. IMO the microphone is a weak link. It just isn't fast enough to react to all the dynamics, harmonics and resonances. It may not have sufficient dynamic range without compression. On violin I believe the situation is even worse with overloading and dynamic compression.

            A very, very good recording is possible, but lighting in a bottle?

            It's all about the medium's ceiling.

            But the message wasn't as much about analog vs. digital per se but our ability to capture a "relatively easy" instrument to mike. Yes, most estimate that you lose 20% of the sound at the microphone level though that varies according to the type of microphone, what it is being used for, etc. Try and find the old Stereophile interview with Keith Johnson where he talks about microphones and what he does to modify them. Interesting read.
            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
            ________________________________________

            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
            -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

            Comment

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