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How important is it to really know ?

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  • How important is it to really know ?

    As I read forums about audio accuracy it makes me wonder is the age old saying ignorance is bliss ,,,, makes for a happy audiophile .
    There is always some who say they attend un amped events weekly or play Ina band , or play classical instruments. For me it makes me wonder does it really matter in making our home audio systems sound great. One thing I personally have found is mine sure don't sound real if someone is here playing. For anyone who has heard great tape over vinyl this gives a clue to how little of real our systems are. But yet people like me are emotional in how good or real there setup sounds to them. Going back to vinyl and tape , tape has a saturation level that's above vinyl . Now I know each recording or pressing matters so in no way do I mean this in an absolute comment . When I have had some one play a guitar or sax or just sing . It becomes so apparent there is a level of texture for lack of the right words that is not there in my best recordings.
    For me it seems my brain must do some really good special effects to put this together as I hear it and make it so real to me.
    I only play digital and for anyone who does as we get closer to better the process is more complex . The amount of settings alone are staggering
    but like you vinyl people who also have many variables its bliss when you get there.
    Lasly I find the ones whom I feel no more than I ever will in real or accurate sound seem to be the furthest away from my real.
    In the msb sel il thread Mike was kind enough to post a link of a great quad dsd piano download . I own it now. While it's not my kind of music I have learned to love so much music by its qulity . I am a quality junkie and this has led me to much of the many TB of music I own.
    Truth in the download makes me wonder of my own ability to know my great from others great. That recording just seems not my version of it.
    I have yet to download a pure dsd file that sounds great to me. Tape or even vinyl transfers seem so much more real to me. Am I deaf or is it my learned version of it that keeps me from being more of what others whom I feel know better say is great.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    For me, personal great is what really matters so I am typically happy....when I get the system singing. I think that that is where knowing comes in, at least on the technical side. I learned it by studying but learned much more by trial and error. Is it required? Maybe, maybe not but some knowledge simply makes dialing in our systems so much quicker.

    I think of it the same way I think of photography. If I have an image in my head I know I need to make interrelated decisions that might get me close to it. We know what Aparture, Shutter Speed, White Balance, Focus, etc are by studying but being able to predict their interactions and getting close to that image within a bracket of 3 frames takes practice, practice, practice. That's the difference between an amateur with talent and a true professional with talent. The latter is not only quick but consistent. The amateur will luck out on a lot of great shots but the lack of efficiency also means he loses out on a lot more moments. For us audio guys that translates to time enjoyed listening on a critical but not analytical way. Put another way, listening to the music instead of the sound. To bad we have to do the former to get the best of the latter. It's great feeling when the system really gets out of the way and even the most trivial of nagging doubts have vanished (or at least gone away for the weekend LOL).

    Comment


    • cpp
      cpp commented
      Editing a comment
      Spot on Jack. I look at audio the same way I look at photography, you just can't beat live.

    • JackD201
      JackD201 commented
      Editing a comment
      It's a completely different experience. Sonics can't, at least to me, trump the energy and the vibe of a really good crowd. For sonics to trump the live experience it had better be near faultless.

  • #3
    Lol
    great reply and thanks. For me some scotch and a cigar gets the music ahead of the system. Recently I redid my server and it's all new yet again and better on all levels
    funny when I think it's done it's not.
    Your point is well taken as I am not a pro but a novice and do fall onto improvment more than head towards it.
    Your point well taken.
    Thanks
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #4
      I think we are all novices

      Comment


      • #5
        I can only speak from my personal experience. Going from my previous Infinity Reference 60 speakers which I owned for 18 years to my current Magico S5 Mk2 speakers was a quantum leap on terms of resolution, accuracy, bandwidth, impact, scale, sound staging/imaging, texture/body (paired with Vitus/Jorma)...the whole nine yards. There is no doubt the S5 Mk2's sound more lifelike and musical than any speaker i've previously had in my listening room (including Infinity Renaissance 90's, Marten Coltranes & Magico S5 Mk1's).

        Myles made a very good point "the better the supporting cast--the better the speakers sound." I have a good system, but in comparison to Myles' system there is a LOT of system development I could do before my speakers' performance plateau'd out (ie: setup a dedicated treated listening room, upgrade racks, grounding, move to high end separates & add reference vinyl and analogue tape sources).

        Building a high end system capable of approaching the sound of the live musical event is the holy grail for most audiophiles, but is an unattainable goal. Live music will always trump the best high end audio system. But with time, dedication and a good chunk of cash, we can get close .
        Last edited by Bodhi; 09-01-2017, 12:22 PM. Reason: typo

        Comment


        • #6
          I think our pets are a good yardstick as to how realistic our systems are performing. Sometimes I spin a LP and one of my dogs hears something that causes them to look for where the sound is coming from. This doesn't happen with a lot of LPs but the best recorded LPs will occasionally get my dogs looking for the source of the sound.

          They never look at the speaker as the source, they look elsewhere around the room for it.
          Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
          https://www.edsstuff.org

          Analog: Walnut VPI Prime TT, HRX Pulley + 3 Belt Drive + ADS, Dual Pivot Assy, Tru Lift, HW-40 Feet
          Analog 2: Ortofon Windfeld Ti + Bob's Devices VPI Sky 30 Stepup + Liberty Audio B2B-1, Stereo Squares Dust Cover, Wayne's Audio Peripheral Ring
          Analog Care: VPI MW-1, Kirmuss KA-RC-1, Record Doctor V, Hunt EDA VI Brush, AQ Brush, Discwasher Record Care Kit
          Digital: TASCAM UH-7000 USB Interface, Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai Universal Disc Player, NAD C448 Internet Radio/Streamer
          Digital 2: Digital Audio Workstation (Toshiba P75-A7200 w/MS Windows 10, 24GB RAM, 1.5 TB Crucial MX300 SSD Internal Storage, Intel i7-4700MQ Processor)

          Amp: Rogue RP-9 Line Preamp, Schiit Loki Tone Ctrls, Parasound A21 Power Amp
          Speakers: Magnepan MMC2, REL T9/i Subwoofer
          Headphones: Stax SR L700 MkII + Woo Audio GES, Focal Clear + Schiit Lyr 2, Stax Lambda Pro + SRM1 Mk II
          Wires: Kimber Hero ICs, Kimber 8TC Speaker Cables, AQ Leopard Phono IC, Pangea Silver USB Cables, StraightWire Expressivo ICs
          Power: Furman Elite 15 PFi

          Comment


          • defdum&blind
            defdum&blind commented
            Editing a comment
            When we had our dog, an English Springer, it would also look to see where a sound was coming from. What I noticed was that it would only do this the first time it heard that sound. Playing back the track again did not cause him to look again. Is it possible that it is an instinctive reaction to perhaps identify a threat?

        • #7
          Dogs have a few great gifts
          not all breads have the gifts that others have.
          A sent hound is one for sent it can smell in the parts per thousand more than us and most other breads too.
          then there is sight hounds. As the name suggests they have keen sight for objects that are moving or not. Sounds stupid but a T. rex could not see you if you stood still. Same for snakes Most all have hearing on a leavel we will never have at least for now.
          They don't just hear high piched sounds but they hear many details we cannot distoguish all at once.
          I watched a show about dogs and there many gifts
          they took three of the same exact car fairly new ones
          stock nothing done to any of them.
          The dog picked its owners car sight on seen every time froma good distance. It was explained it was like hearing an orchestra and one instrument was tuned different.
          They used people and digital analizers to confirm what the dog knew every time. And not one person or machine could do what the dog did every time. a dog was made for the purpose over many milenuim as we were. We see many more shades of green much more than other colors.
          There are some who see far better than most other humans they have many more rods for color.
          The point is if we could hear a fraction as good or detailed as a dog would we love our stereos as much ?
          While some really do hear better in this hobby it's a learned experience done with practice
          the devices we use to detect what an amp
          is doing does it far more precisely than we can hear. But we can hear far more than our man made devices can measure. Wonder what we could do if we could make the right tools ? We can measure the pressure of flea fart but not why one amp sounds much more musical than another.
          What we can do very well is learn to like what we have regardless of opinions and mesurments.

          when reading my posts please consider I do have a condition that causes me to not read correctly to what I typed even after spell check it lol. Add to this my poor spelling and this too is part of my condition.
          As I just spelled checked this a few times
          in my name on top I just read I was a returning member
          !!!! In reading it again it says premiere lol. So yes I need glasses and must drive you people crazy wondering wtf did he just post. But I do try hard sometimes and it not much better.
          analog stuff.
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
          sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
          new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
          thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
          thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
          kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
          phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
          mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
          Dacs lampi various

          Comment


          • #8
            "Real" goes out the window as soon as you make a Recording of something.

            If you understand this, it is quite extraordinary how "real" a good system can sound considering.

            So when Real is not a benchmark anymore what do you tune your system to?

            For me; how deeply does it connect me to this experience right now.

            If it makes me whant to look for another track or even walk out the room something has gone wrong...

            Comment

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