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  • Stand mounted speakers, thoughts on coupling them to the stands...

    As I mentioned in my post about my Sound dynamics 300ti, one thing that really helps them is to not spike them to the stands. I used to use four Bright Star IsoNodes between the speaker and stand, but right now I'm trying three Audioquest Q-Feet (without the plastic cover). It really frees up the soundstage, gives a much more open and natural sound to the bass, and deals with a little of the recessed midrange these speakers are known for. I actually find floating most stand mount speakers on either isoNodes or the Q-Feet to be a big improvement over spikes or other rigid coupling methods.
    The idea had been suggested to me by Barry Kohan of Bright Star, and flew in the face of the "rigidly coupled" idea that was the norm for stand mounted speakers. Over the last fifteen years, I haven't tried a single stand mount speaker in my system that wasn't improved by not coupling them rigidly to the stands.
    Anyone else have any experience with trying this?
    Steve Lefkowicz
    Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
    -
    Analog: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 19a, iPhono2; Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Sumiko Pearl, iFi iPhono.
    Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 26, Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio), iFi iDAC2, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2.
    Electronics: Burson Conductor Virtuoso, DIY switch-box with TKD 10K pot, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso, Jolida JD1000P, B&K ST140.
    Speakers: Tekton Double Impact, Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7, ELAC Debut2 B6.2, Debut F5 and Debut B6, Emotiva Airmotiv B1, Sound Dynamics 300ti.
    Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Nordost Solar Wind, Audioquest Evergreen
    Speaker cables: Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet, Nordost Solar Wind, Nordost Flatline, Audioquest Q2.
    Digital cables: Straightwire USB Link, Aural Symphonics Digital Standard xxv USB, Belkin PureAV.
    Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan racks, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Sound Organization speaker stands, Pangea Audio speaker stands, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
    Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More MK801, 1More Triple Driver IEM

    http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...ounding-system

  • #2
    Gary Koh wrote an interesting white paper on the pros and cons of coupling v. decoupling speakers.

    http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/w...Decoupling.pdf
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

    Comment


    • SundayNiagara
      SundayNiagara commented
      Editing a comment
      Not trying to hijack the thread, but wondering why Gary doesn't seem to sell speakers in the US?

  • #3
    Originally posted by Steve Lefkowicz View Post
    I actually find floating most stand mount speakers on either isoNodes or the Q-Feet to be a big improvement over spikes or other rigid coupling methods . . . The idea had been suggested to me by Barry Kohan of Bright Star, and flew in the face of the "rigidly coupled" idea that was the norm for stand mounted speakers. Over the last fifteen years, I haven't tried a single stand mount speaker in my system that wasn't improved by not coupling them rigidly to the stands. Anyone else have any experience with trying this?
    I've got a pair of Reference 3A MM de Capo i speakers which sit on heavy, spiked, sand filled stands made by Osiris. Reference 3A recommends using Blue Tack to decouple the speaker from the stands but being an inveterate tweaker I tried different combinations. I tried the speaker directly sitting on the speaker stand, then with the blue tack, and finally I tried using non-slip rug pad. The best to my ears was the non-slip rug pad. It prevents any horizontal movement of the speaker but is slightly elastic in the vertical direction and provides a small amount of decoupling from the stand. It gives the best integration of bass.
    ---Gary



    Analog: Scheu + Immedia RPM tonearm + Koetsu Black + Pass Xono or Threshold FET 10pe
    Amps: First Watt F7, HK Citation II
    Pre-Amps: CJ Premier 14, Threshold FET 10e, DIY 417a with output transformer
    Speakers: Horning Eufrodite, Reference 3A mm de capo
    Tuners: Sansui TU9900, McIntosh MR78
    Digital: i7 Server (Roon) + SSD, Sonore urendu + Mutec MC3+ USB + Berkeley Alpha Dac, Audiomeca Mephisto
    Power: Audience AR12, Torus Tot, DIY filters

    Comment


    • #4
      I wonder after reading Gary's paper how much of this is dependent of the size of the speakers, the size/type of drivers, how well the drivers are coupled to the cabinet, the cabinet material, etc.?
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #5
        I've had issues with blu tack maybe the formulation has changed over the years from when its was made in the UK. It ruined the veneer on a few monitors (Spendor and Harbeth). The speakers stuck to the stands and I had to use mineral spirits to loosen them, the veneer still lifted in spots and had a pro restore them so they were re-saleable (more time and money lost). never again. I like GaryB's suggestion I also like the "blue dots" (medium density sorbothane) sold by Sound Anchor the have just the right amount of 'stiction' removing any fear the speaker will topple on its own yet decouples it from the stand at the same time.
        Simon Yorke S10 | My Sonic Lab Eminent GL | AcousticPlan PhonoMaster | Wadia X32 | Innuous ZEN Mini Mk II | Valvet Soulshine2 | Linear Tube Audio ZOTL10 MkII | Avantgarde Uno Fino XD

        "One of the great challenges of this world: Knowing enough about a subject to think you are right, but not enough about the subject to know you're wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

        Comment


        • #6
          One thing to consider with "decoupling" is how soft and springy the decoupling agents are. With three Q-Feet (about 3/4" thick and quite squishy), my Sound Dynamics are very free to float, but seem to have an overall front to back or side to side resonant frequency under 10Hz (checked experimentally, not measured). If I were to bump into them they would likely tip over, but a quick visual check with a cup of coffee sitting on top shows less vibration than having them solidly coupled to the stand. I used half full cups of coffee (the dark color makes it easy to see ripples and patterns on the surface) when setting up high end photo finishing and printing gear, where even the smallest vibrations could impact image quality.
          Steve Lefkowicz
          Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
          -
          Analog: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 19a, iPhono2; Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Sumiko Pearl, iFi iPhono.
          Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 26, Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio), iFi iDAC2, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2.
          Electronics: Burson Conductor Virtuoso, DIY switch-box with TKD 10K pot, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso, Jolida JD1000P, B&K ST140.
          Speakers: Tekton Double Impact, Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7, ELAC Debut2 B6.2, Debut F5 and Debut B6, Emotiva Airmotiv B1, Sound Dynamics 300ti.
          Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Nordost Solar Wind, Audioquest Evergreen
          Speaker cables: Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet, Nordost Solar Wind, Nordost Flatline, Audioquest Q2.
          Digital cables: Straightwire USB Link, Aural Symphonics Digital Standard xxv USB, Belkin PureAV.
          Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan racks, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Sound Organization speaker stands, Pangea Audio speaker stands, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
          Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More MK801, 1More Triple Driver IEM

          http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...ounding-system

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by GaryB View Post

            I've got a pair of Reference 3A MM de Capo i speakers which sit on heavy, spiked, sand filled stands made by Osiris. Reference 3A recommends using Blue Tack to decouple the speaker from the stands but being an inveterate tweaker I tried different combinations. I tried the speaker directly sitting on the speaker stand, then with the blue tack, and finally I tried using non-slip rug pad. The best to my ears was the non-slip rug pad. It prevents any horizontal movement of the speaker but is slightly elastic in the vertical direction and provides a small amount of decoupling from the stand. It gives the best integration of bass.
            ---Gary
            I have the Ryan R610s sitting on Osiris stands as well, with a bit of Blue Tack between. Haven't felt the need to fill them with sand -- they're quite heavy without any.
            The Ryans are surprising.
            Brian Walsh
            ttsetup.com

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by bpw View Post
              . . . Osiris stands as well . . . Haven't felt the need to fill them with sand -- they're quite heavy without any.
              How does that old saying go - you can never to too thin, too rich, or have speaker stands that weigh too much?
              ---Gary
              Analog: Scheu + Immedia RPM tonearm + Koetsu Black + Pass Xono or Threshold FET 10pe
              Amps: First Watt F7, HK Citation II
              Pre-Amps: CJ Premier 14, Threshold FET 10e, DIY 417a with output transformer
              Speakers: Horning Eufrodite, Reference 3A mm de capo
              Tuners: Sansui TU9900, McIntosh MR78
              Digital: i7 Server (Roon) + SSD, Sonore urendu + Mutec MC3+ USB + Berkeley Alpha Dac, Audiomeca Mephisto
              Power: Audience AR12, Torus Tot, DIY filters

              Comment

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