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  • Who is using subwoofers?

    I'm super pumped about adding subwoofers! Who is using them? One or stereo pair? Brand? Thoughts?
    Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
    Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
    Amplifier: Silver Circle Audio 300B Monoblocks with Takatsuki 300B tubes
    Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
    Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
    Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
    Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge
    Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
    Vinyl Care: Audio Desk Pro Ultrasonic & VPI 16.5 RCM
    CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5 to Bricasti M1 DAC
    Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
    Tape Stage: Doshi V.3
    Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
    Wire: Custom Furutech PC's & IC's + Inakustik LS-4004 Air Speaker Cables
    Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

  • #2
    I’ve always used a subwoofer. Even with my current speakers, which are large and flat to 30Hz, the placement of those speakers for best imaging and where the couch is etc mean that a subwoofer in the corner is almost essential for good bass performance.

    I use a Velodyne FSR-15. I’ve had it almost 20 years, no issues. Someday I suppose it will croak and I will need a new one
    TAPE: Studer A807, A810; Revox B77 MkII; Tascam BR-20; Technics RS-1700; Pioneer RT-707, RT-909
    VINYL: Pioneer PL-50LII/Benz LP-S MR/ModWright PH 9.0; Denon DP59-L/Dynavector 20xH
    DIGITAL: Bryston SP-3, Marantz NA6006/Pioneer N-50, Schiit Bifrost
    SPEAKERS: B&W Nautilus 800, Pioneer DSS-9, Velodyne FSR-15
    AMPS: Cary SLP-05/Sunfire Signature 600, Pioneer SX-1980

    Comment


    • #3
      I had them over the years if done well it's a great fuller sound. If I may suggest this. Don't go down the dsp path if your not using it now.
      move them to make it not be heard it can be this way
      I have two 8 foot towers ask Myles you don't know they are there if you close your eyes.
      Get subs that have a high level input and amps inside
      I have not used them on this setup but did on the rs1b setup.
      post pics and please comment to all of us.
      one last thought the size of the sub speaker effects the speed to a point as well.
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • #4
        Try a "subwoofer swarm" system (4 subwoofers).
        Last edited by Tapetech; 10-16-2019, 12:51 AM.
        -Tim Leinbaugh
        -Professional RTR restoration and modification for 45 years.
        [email protected]
        www.MusicTechnology.com

        Comment


        • #5
          My excitement got the better of me and failed to mention that I got a pair of REL G1 Mark II and will connect them through the high level inputs. More to follow.
          Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
          Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
          Amplifier: Silver Circle Audio 300B Monoblocks with Takatsuki 300B tubes
          Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
          Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
          Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
          Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge
          Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
          Vinyl Care: Audio Desk Pro Ultrasonic & VPI 16.5 RCM
          CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5 to Bricasti M1 DAC
          Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
          Tape Stage: Doshi V.3
          Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
          Wire: Custom Furutech PC's & IC's + Inakustik LS-4004 Air Speaker Cables
          Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

          Comment


          • #6
            2 JL Audio f112 v2 with CR-1 crossover to correct room issues. Rolling off the mains pretty high (as recommended by JL Audio)

            Comment


            • jonathanhorwich
              jonathanhorwich commented
              Editing a comment
              Bruce, you mean you cut into the low end of the main speaker and let the sub handle that? I always let me main speaker do most of the low end it was able to and subtly brought in the subs to fill in where the main trailed off. Did it by ear. Curious what you found.

            • Bruce B
              Bruce B commented
              Editing a comment
              The mains are cut about 88Hz with a 3dB slope so the subs can take care of the 65Hz room null at the listening position. This way I have a perfectly flat response from 22Hz to 1k

            • jonathanhorwich
              jonathanhorwich commented
              Editing a comment
              Oh, okay I get it. Makes sense. Thanks.

          • #7
            Using 2 REL S/2s with my electrostatics with high level speaker input . I passively cross my highs to about 100hz and above on my panels.... with a single copper v cap. The first order is a very shallow slope so there is some wiggle in that.

            I never thought I would be a sub lover. However, they have been a game changer for focus, soundstage and engagement. I found them difficult to to integrate but worth the OCD pain.

            Using 2 subs is better than 1 IMO. More focus and easier integration. I have never tried a swarm system.

            It's going to be rare that most real world speakers ( those that don't cost Ferrari money) won't benefit from properly integrated subs IMO

            I have tried numerous active crossovers, for me, I can hear all of them. YMMV



            Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
            Brinkmann La Grange & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
            Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
            Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
            Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2
            Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

            Comment


            • Doxycc
              Doxycc commented
              Editing a comment
              I use a pair of REL 212s with my Xstatic electrostatic speakers. I chose them as the 212s IMO match well with the speed of the electrostatics. Game changing indeed.

          • #8
            I use a pair of 15" Rythmiks crossed over pretty low~ at 55hz, with a small DSP controller that is fed from my line stage rather than piggy-backing off my main amps. I do not roll off my main speakers, Avantgarde Duos, which have their own integrated woofer (not really subwoofer) system. Despite the fact that the Avantgarde is tricky to cohere between the mid horn (which has no crossover between it and the Lamm SET amps) and the integrated woofers, I've found that the addition of the two subs was the key. I tune the Duos so the bass coming from the integrated woofer system (which does take a high level feed from the main amps) blends well with the mid-horn; standing alone, they would probably sound somewhat anemic. But, the subs bring the rest of the foundation into play without sounding thick or kludgey.
            I never had much luck back in the day matching subs with Quads and horns present the same challenge. This works. Apart from deep bass when it is on the program material, I've got a better foundation, a deeper soundstage with more tonality- no 'one note' bass. I know there is no free lunch, but.....
            This system (and the change to the stone Koetsu cartridges) has really brought me into a new realm of playback joy. The tone and body of the double bass is excellent, drums sound more like real drums and there is, overall, a more spacious quality to the rest that I attribute to a better foundation. Yikes, I sound like an audiophile. (Remember Johnny, the Audio Pimp? )

            Comment


            • jonathanhorwich
              jonathanhorwich commented
              Editing a comment
              Bill, this is exactly how I integrated my subs in the past and it worked very well, that is, just filling in the natural bass sound of the speakers.

          • #9
            I've pretty much used them non stop over the last 20 years. Greatly prefer pairs, moved from a single REL G1 MKII to a pair of SVS SB4000 last Christmas. I run them stereo via XLR cables.
            SOURCE: VINYL - EAT C-Sharp, Soundsmith Paua mkII
            DIGITAL - Auralic Vega G2 DAC. Bluesound Node 2i streamer
            PHONOSTAGE: AudioNet PAM G2 with AudioNet EPX power supply. EAT E Glo Petit & EAT LPS power supply (EAT phono for sale)
            PREAMP: Audionet PRE G2.
            AMPLIFIER: Audionet MAX monoblocks.
            SPEAKERS: YG Acoustics Anat III Signatures (upgraded to Sonja 1.2) SVS SB-4000 subwoofers (x2)
            CABLES: Kubala-Sosna.....Audio Desk Systeme RCM, Adona Rack, GIK room treatment

            Comment


            • #10
              Here is my thoughts on some suggestions here
              we use high level to allow for the amps to Control the subs as it plays to the speakers. Someone explained this to me. As I noticed some music has more bass than others it just seems off at times. It's the amp interaction causing this. Genisis has a simple circuit to convert high level to low level inputs. It's why I said high level into sub
              dsp has a delay no matter what one you use so this alone effects the sound it also may change the phasing as well. two might be better then one but mostly not as they interact more in the room. One is more Simple and on vinyl I think bass is mono ? Correctly me if I'm wrong.
              using the sub as in an addition to main speakers is again more simple. If we use our ears alone I doubt it's perfect and just an iPhone app would show bass bumps to adjust too. If the sub is servo this is yet another possible issue
              as many servo bass subs chase the decay of certain low freq hits. A common one is a foot stomp ona stage as it booms where a non servo storm hits and is gone no boom. Just my thoughts on this and I welcome feed back on all ideas as I learn
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #11
                Fortunately, my Vandersteen Model 7s have subs built in so it just let them work it out. Setting them up takes about 2 hours since there are 11 different frequency settings on each speaker used to set the bass.

                In my smaller system I use a 12" Rythmik sub.
                Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio V3 Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS; Durand Telos and SME 3012R Tonearms, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Zero, Benz Micro LPS; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810; Studer A812; Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

                Comment


                • #12
                  105db efficient Klipschorn loudspeakers with an 18” Velodyne ULD-18 IIservo controlled sub crossed over at 40Hz. Room is 24x20x8 Click image for larger version

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                  Lots of stuff!

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    I don't use subs for music listening - little point as my speakers are 3 dB down at 20 hz, but I use a pair of subs that are 3dB down at 16 hz for sound effects when I run the AV system. Takes some of the work off the main speakers - many soundtracks are artificially boosted low down for effect. Gotta get that 'slam' to win Oscars, I guess.

                    Anything below 20 hz is really felt more than heard.

                    If you have speakers that are bass limited, you need really good, well integrated subs to work with them for regular stereo.
                    Main:VPI TNT V, SME V, Koetsu Urushi, Vendetta SCP2-D, Conrad Johnson Premier 14, Conrad Johnson Premier 11a, Wilson Maxx 2, Inouye power conditioner

                    #2 Sota Cosmos, SME V, Lyra Clavis, Bryston BP17, Conrad Johnson Premier 15 phono, Classe DR3 VHC, Martin Logan CLS

                    #3 Classe DR-7, Classe DR3 VHC bridged monos + PSE V monos (bass), Classe DAC1 DA converter, Vandersteen 4A

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Update.......pretty much dialed in and am ecstatic. It’s not often that we’re fortunate enough to do something in our systems that makes us want to listen to our entire music collection all over again.
                      Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
                      Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
                      Amplifier: Silver Circle Audio 300B Monoblocks with Takatsuki 300B tubes
                      Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
                      Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
                      Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
                      Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge
                      Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
                      Vinyl Care: Audio Desk Pro Ultrasonic & VPI 16.5 RCM
                      CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5 to Bricasti M1 DAC
                      Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
                      Tape Stage: Doshi V.3
                      Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
                      Wire: Custom Furutech PC's & IC's + Inakustik LS-4004 Air Speaker Cables
                      Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

                      Comment


                      • Bill Hart
                        Bill Hart commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I like the fact that you can dial em in with a remote control, makes set up a whole lot easier. They are nice looking too- not just a box. We need to get you some massive dub stuff to play on 'em.

                    • #15
                      I tried one with my maggies, but never could get it set right, ended up removing it from the system
                      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                      Comment


                      • wspohn
                        wspohn commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I've thought about adding an acoustic driver sub to my system with electrostatic speakers but have qualms about them being fast enough to work well with the electrostats. Similar issue with the Maggie panels, I'd think.

                      • timztunz
                        timztunz commented
                        Editing a comment
                        wspohn I think if you could try some REL that you might be more comfortable with the necessary speed.
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