What is King when building a system

[Gusf]

For me it has turned out to be the speakers. I have always made decisions on changes based on how my speakers sound. What is it for you? An excellent source? Room limitations? I am currently building a system with PBN Speaker prototypes I was given by Peter for doing some marketing work and a Rega RP6 my wife gave me for my birthday. You will be damn sure that it will be the best Sounding RP6 when I am done.

[JCOConnell]

speakers, source, preamp

[Steve Lefkowicz]

Room, source, and proper hierarchical signal path. Learned many years ago to never send a signal into a more revealing component. Upstream components should always be better, more revealing, and play into equal or less revealing components or you'll just better hear the limitations of your system. That doesn't mean by price, just by quality.

[Gusf]

Excellent point. But doesn't your speakers play a large part in the final result? I mean isn't all equipment flawed in some way.

[Steve Lefkowicz]

Of course, but if the issues in your source or electronics aren't resolved first, improving your speakers may sound worse, if they now show up the flaws upstream. I was shocked how much better some ELAC F5 speakers I have ($550) sounded when I put a $3500 Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso in front of them. Had a similar case with my Tekton Lores ($999) when I put a $6000 Modwright integrated amp in the system.
I've always looked to start with the source, and work downstream.
I see this not being addressed in the headphone world a lot. People buy expensive headphones then try match up with inadequate amplification. I was shocked (really) to hear good my old Beyer DT770 headphones sounded with a $4500 Eddie Current amp or a $1600 ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone Amp (that had a proper 600 ohm connection).

[JackD201]

Best source you can afford is constant but for best results, Room and the best speakers for that room and amplification best for those speakers.

[Rob]

+1

[Joe Pittman]

The loudspeakers are the most important. The loudspeakers then determine what kind of amplification. I highly recommend loudspeakers with built-in powered sub-woofers, The main amplifiers have an easier job driving the mid to high frequencies.

Having a great loudspeaker and good electronics is better than the opposite.

Then preamplifier, it is the most important of the electronics. The system will never be better than the preamp. To save money, you can always go with an integrated amp.

Then sources. You can get very good digital for the money these days, and that technology continues to evolve. Today's state-of-the-art digital devices are tomorrows bargains on Audiogon. You can upgrade sources over time.

I prefer vinyl, but you need to know what you are doing. The amount you invest in LP playback should mirror your investment in LP's. If you have a great collection...

As your system approaches greatness, everything becomes important. Small things matter. Acoustics, power, resonance control, equipment stands, interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, total system integration and set-up...

Expensive/high cost components and speakers don't guarantee high performance, but the best usually are very expensive.

[cpp]

Room, speakers, The rest just falls into place based on the size of your room.

A bad room will pretty much nullify the true capability of your speakers

[Johnny Vinyl]

I will certainly agree that the room is ultimately the most important, but for the sake of this exercise I'll stick to gear only.

I've always been of the opinion that the source is king as I strongly believe in the GIGO mantra. However, after reading some of the above, and the many other threads I've followed and participated in on other boards, I'm not 100% sure. There are strong cases being made for speakers first, and I can't in good conscience make a case against those opinions. Follow whatever beliefs you have on the subject and you're golden IMO.

In my current situation, given the setup that I have, my focus will be (when funds allow) to continue on improving the source. I don't know if all the things I would like to do will ever happen, but I'll try to do as much as I can. My reason for continuing to focus on the source is that I'm very happy with my amplification and speakers, and I know source improvements will yield substantial audible results. Better amplification and speakers would improve everything as well, but since I'm already more than pleased, why bother going down that road. IMO, the money is better spent in smaller steps with the source.

[Garth]

The Room is a given be it treated or untreated.

I would say you need a overall plan of where you would like to end up I would put the most time effort into the source then follow on down to the speakers last.

Their are some good thoughts in the posts above .

If money is a factor it kind of comes down to how much Bass can you live without.

Want to cheat source head phone amp head phones

[1morerecord2clean]

Very difficult question to answer provided you aren't using very old equipment. I would have said the source is paramount. I have always said you can't hear what isn't at the beginning of the audio chain regardless of what equipment follows the source. OTOH having spent some money on platforms, footers, and a rack earlier this year, these changes have made obvious to me other shortcomings in my system. So I guess I am saying the foundation might be first, unless you already have a great foundation. Then you might look elsewhere.i haven't experimented with my room and of course those results could change my mind.

[david k]

I think the better question is what isn't King when building a system and even then it's not a simple answer. Your budget and priorities, size of the room and purpose of the system, i.e. living room, party time, or dedicated listening environment will play a part in what matters most in the system you're putting together and with more resolution the more little things matter. For myself the main systems are based on the electronics and we built the systems starting from the amps. But depending on the situation and client we build around what's the best component in an existing system and/or what fits the budget and application but always with an eye towards a sensible future upgrade path.

david

[Gusf]

Gentlemen, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful responses. I realize my question was over simplified. Several years ago I settled on the first GAMUT L3's and I spent a lot of time on trying to find the right amps and pre amps to make them sing. Settled on BAT tubed gear and eventually worked my way up to a Basis 2800, Vector3 with aTransfiguration Orpheus cartridge. Finally, I fine tuned with cabling. The speakers were the only constant. When I was done, I realized, for me, the building is the most enjoyable part of the hobby. Reason's for this is probably best suited in a different forum 😀.

Sold everything except my vinyl and stepped away for a few years. Now I am back at it with a much simpler system and enjoying my music more than ever.

I love this forum for it's members vast knowledge and experience. I enjoy learning about the state of the art products.

[Garth]

Simple or the Kiss method (Keep It Simple Stupid) has a lot of merit.
I have a second system in the house TT Phono set amp and speakers

The Speakers are Loth X one speaker paper cone no cross over amp is a KR phono ayre tt sota arm smeV cartridge a shelter

It is simple and has pure sound even with the dac and cd Orpheus dac and acoustic arts transport.

My wife uses it to practice with for her clarinet the first clarinet for the New Jersey symphony was using it with her on Friday he was impressed with the idea of it as a practice tool.

The less there is in a system the less to go wrong I have done bi amping and subs and about every thing else when it will not play or play right simple starts to look good.

but if you want Bass or slam it is not simple and Kiss turns into (Knights In Satans Service). Thats what the rock band stands for by that name.

[Gusf]

You are absolutely right. I am living in the midrange right now. My system is in the living room were 40hz is keeping all parties happy.😄

I do most of my listening off axis.

[mkuller]

In building a system I always say find speakers you love first because they have the biggest differences between them.

Then compare as many amplifiers as you can to find the one that makes them sing when matched to it.

Preamp and source are next. Cables, ICs and cords to fine tune and bring out the best in the system.

Room treatment and speaker positioning to optimize. And of course vibration control and AC treatment.

[MylesBAstor]

I think the better question is what isn't King when building a system and even then it's not a simple answer. Your budget and priorities, size of the room and purpose of the system, i.e. living room, party time, or dedicated listening environment will play a part in what matters most in the system you're putting together and with more resolution the more little things matter. For myself the main systems are based on the electronics and we built the systems starting from the amps. But depending on the situation and client we build around what's the best component in an existing system and/or what fits the budget and application but always with an eye towards a sensible future upgrade path.

david

I'm kinda on the same page with David and Johnny.

What I might add to David. First, it's not an all or none effect. One gradually improves pieces at a time. I think one needs to try a find the best room they can from the beginning (other than having a custom built room) rather than trying to fix after the fact. So avoiding square rooms (you can't believe how many audiophiles are saddled with this issue), minimizing reflective surfaces, etc. Then one can really optimize speaker placement with judicious use of some inexpensive room Rx (almost all of us can always get a little more out of our system by tweaking speaker placement). Later on down the road, audiophiles can work on some more sophisticated, expensive room treatments.

At that point, one can think of building the system. I'm definitely on the GIGO page. All good speakers will do is show how bad the source is. But others get good results with getting the best speakers they can afford and then upgrading the system around that speaker.

I think the one thing that I've learned over the years is not to be dogmatic; there are many ways to achieve good results with an audio system.

[Rust]

I'll go with speakers first. A decent set of speakers will sound good with virtually any amplification capable of driving those speakers. A flawed design will not overcome it's flaws no matter what is used upstream.

Over the years I've found myself far more sensitive to speaker performance than the electronics.

[mkuller]

I agree with starting with the speakers and working backward - from the biggest differences to the least. Amplification I would rate second because different amplifiers will make the speakers sound different.

[Guest]

I'm always beating the drum for audio room infrastructure: room+acoustics, clean power on demand, vibration isolation (rack and platforms). You won't know what you've paid for until you address these items.

Maybe not the king but certainly the king-maker.

[Garth]

I agree but how to treat a room is a lot harder than you would think it is at lest for me a good thread on this would be nice and yes I know first reflection point first then corners then I am lost