Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

IRS v woofer towers phase shifting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • IRS v woofer towers phase shifting

    If any of you have seen a picture of my room with them . A few things will come to mind one is what the hell is that tower in the middle . You might think it's for a mono woofer tower . It's not in my search for getting the low freq to be more flat it's what I ended up doing.
    I tried many hours moving them around and used dsp. While dsp is a way of fixing many audio woes it's price is too high for the damage it creates .
    what I did was not my idea and in fact I posted the question on many forums including ps audio as Paul has a pair and is friends with there maker.

    Only one one person in a matter of just a few words explained why and hiw to fix it. I will always be grateful to him for his many improvment stat are always real and not mind bending. On ps audio there is some really bright people who seem to know so much of what we hear and why. Yet not one of these people even commented on why the towers were arranged and how it helped. At first I was hurt and mad as they were not willing to help me. A dear friend said don't be hurt they just don't know and remain quit .
    I had a device made to chage the phase of each woofer tower , this allows for me to put them back Ina more standard position and adjust the phase of each tower to get the bass pretty flat. Funny I can actually move the bass staging as well. All done in the analog domain.
    It makes me wonder why no one mKes such a device for many speakers or even better build one into a speaker setup.
    The man who knows how and why is GARY of genisis. A quit man who I think knows more about audio sound and devices than most do on the planet. Many can play and make things better or worse , but rarly can someone really know why. This is not just wisdom but a much higher order of knowledge.
    Thank you Gary fro all your help and continued improvment in audio for all of us.
    If it were not for my illness I would by now looking at one of your models new and shining in my room.
    Again thanks.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    How might this knowledge be useful to other speaker configurations...I would assume dual subs could benefit. Can you tell us more about your devices and how they work? Thanks
    Inquiring minds want to know....
    Primary 2 channel stuff: Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass Labs X600.5 amps, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, Dunlavy SC4s, VPI HRX Reference w Avenger mag drive and Reference footers, Gimbal Fatboy, Yamaha GT2000 for Mono, Miyajima Kansui, Miyajima ZERO, Fidelity Research MC-201 & 202, VPI ADS, Vendetta Research SCP-1, Audio Note UK- 3.1X II balanced DAC, Meridian Sooloos, Western Electric Speaker wire, mostly diy balanced interconnects, Furutech Power Cords

    Comment


    • #3
      I will tonight. Only way is woofer or sub must be powered by its own amp. Quickly what it does is make the woofers slightly out of phase to each other.
      This lowers the middle bass bump most all have.
      Mill explain better tonight. And tell you where to have one made.
      amd thank Gary of gensis the only person I could find and knew what was needed.
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • #4
        The absolute best article by far I've read for understanding setting up subs is attached. It clearly discusses phase and time domain, speaker placement, as well as use of multiple subs. Getting a reasonably flat frequency response in your room measurements doesn't mean phase and time domain of mains and subs are optimally aligned. Fortunately your hearing is less sensitive to these artifacts as you approach 80Hz and below and you may still like the sound you get anyway. (Click on the first link)

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks I'll read this too.
          analog stuff.
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
          sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
          new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
          thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
          thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
          kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
          phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
          mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
          Dacs lampi various

          Comment


          • #6
            A few years back a system I listened to had three powered subs with the nearly full range mains. The subs were powered and located at what you might call odd locations which apparently minimized peaks and nulls. IIRC they were crossed around 50 Hz and as the subs were powered the volumes were individually set to prevent overblown bass. Useful if you don't have a perfect room for your particular system.

            In Als' case, changing the phase just a bit would help minimize peaks and nulls at the listening position.

            Most better subs have adjustable phase for exactly that reason although it seems like nobody seems to know about or mention it. Maybe it's something that might show up on large full range powered speakers for the bass.

            Comment


            • #7
              Exactly my point I get how 35 year old speakers might not have it. But how many use dsp to fix it now with new speakers. In my 7.1 surround sound I only need one sub
              but I did have two and it does have phase shift. Funny I had no idea what it did until now.
              I posted my bass bump plight on many forums. No one had any answers except for one person. Not even the maker of my speakers offered it as a solution. This makes me wonder how much even designers know.
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #8
                REL Subs have significant phase adjustment capability...My current Aerial SW-12s only have 0 & 180 phase options
                Primary 2 channel stuff: Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass Labs X600.5 amps, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, Dunlavy SC4s, VPI HRX Reference w Avenger mag drive and Reference footers, Gimbal Fatboy, Yamaha GT2000 for Mono, Miyajima Kansui, Miyajima ZERO, Fidelity Research MC-201 & 202, VPI ADS, Vendetta Research SCP-1, Audio Note UK- 3.1X II balanced DAC, Meridian Sooloos, Western Electric Speaker wire, mostly diy balanced interconnects, Furutech Power Cords

                Comment


                • #9
                  That is the point 180 is canselation in my setup
                  i need much less only 20 or so degrees. I do not claim to know why but it was briefly explained to me. A really smart man on another forums said the 180' phase shift to me to fix my issue when I pressed him for an answer. Not being an ass but many post of formulas and concepts of why things are as they seem. But I many times find they know what they post in formulas but not know how it effects our rooms correctly. Like I said on many places I posted my issue only one knew and said simply and wjat to do to fix it. I am a lisc PE and electrical contractor and know my business and what I have done in grounding I do know sounds better but not why it sounds better. I too am in the same club it seems. Again one man knows and why lol.
                  analog stuff.
                  otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                  otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                  sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                  new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                  thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                  thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                  kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                  phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                  speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                  mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                  digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                  Dacs lampi various

                  Comment


                  • Letsmakeadeal
                    Letsmakeadeal commented
                    Editing a comment
                    so please tell us how you did it? Device to phase shift only 20 degrees? Wide range of adjustability? How? DIY?
                    Last edited by Letsmakeadeal; 08-24-2017, 05:27 PM.
                Working...
                X