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I have the Pure Audio Project Trio 10 speakers. They are open baffle design. The other night, per a friends suggestion, I took my Graditech speaker cables and put them direct to the Voxativ driver, bypassing the crossover and internal speaker wires. Wow. Lots of clarity. Violins like I never heard. Of course vocals were thin and out of balance. I spoke with the manufacturer of my speakers and they say a lot of reduction of the haze/clowdyness/congestion can be obtained by changing out the jumper cables from the crossover to the drivers. Well, what can a poor boy like myself try. They suggested Morrow. They tried the SP2. Said it helped a lot, but maybe a larger gauge would work better on the woofers. Any suggestions. My speakers have a Voxative mid/high and (2) Morel 10" woofers in parallel.
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PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect. -
Do you have a link to model and a possible wiring diagram
short lengths of doesn't matter as much as long. Gauge matters plenty. But in reading your post are you saying you bypassed the cross over compleltly ? If so how could you not hurt the mids feeding it all freq s.
Last if it's cleaner I would guess its more the cross over parts used before the wires.
call me of you wish.analog stuff.
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
Dacs lampi various -
I am utilizing the crossover. I only bypassed it to see what sort of grunge it and the cables were adding to the mix. It was pretty thick. Thomas with Pure Audio said the first step is change the cabling between the crossover and the drivers. Said it will help allot. Of course, you get what you spend. Its also a balancing act between bright/clear and fatiguing. Currently I have not been able to play them loud enough to fatigue me. They are very nice, just too much clowdiness and haze in the picture.PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect.Comment
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This is the link to the crossover. I only have 1 choke. My woofers are in parallel. 1 choke, 1 cap and 2 resistors to set attenuation between the mid/high and woofers. Cap is a 47uf. Way to big to find a Teflon replacement. I have been told to try an air core choke, but I can not find one the exact same value as the one that came with the speaker.
I am going to take the crossover off the speaker stand to reduce induced vibration. I also need to find a way to suspend the cables themselves. The frames shake quite a bit when I get er cranked up.
The cable fro the crossover to the Voxativ will be about 3 feet long.PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect.Comment
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A few thoughts. It's cheap to just try some 12 gauge lamp cord no harm in trying and cheap by a crimp
tool amd crimps from Home Depot.
First I would do above from amp to speaker terminals first
then of it sound better see if it's needed for drivers after cross over.
Replace the wires after cross overs. To drivers.
The thought of changing out parts of equal values is not the only issue it's how they act together with friends and each other. This would need to be scoped and then tested by Mics to see results. I tried this with a set of RS 1B speakers. Sounds easy till you do it.
To make me get this understood you tried new wires you have and connected from amp directly to mid/tweeter driver and it greatly improved transparency ?
If yes have you tried this wire from amp to speaker terminals ?
I did have an issue with a set of Speaker wires myself that really rolled off the highs badly and were just 6 feet long.
analog stuff.
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
Dacs lampi variousComment
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Kingrex My Avantgardes run from amp output directly to mid horn with no X-over. Jumpers from the mid horn posts to tweeter horn and integrated woofers (which have X-overs). As to what cable, can't tell you- but can you run your midrange without a X-over and then jump to the other drivers with a crossover?
That may be more important than the wire itself, but don't know enough about your mid-driver to know if can run full range without integration issues or worse. Since you are a hands-on kinda guy, maybe plan B is a much simpler, less intrusive X-over for the mid speaker; that's where much of the action is in terms of tone, voice, etc.Comment
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I get what your saying. If I was making a transition line speaker that had a tweeter, I would do as such. I need to keep my crossover. I'm really looking for a suggestion of a good manufacturer of speaker cable that I can get in bulk. -
Rob recommended the Canare 4S11 for me to use as "speaker wire" for my electrostats- I believe he said Magico? uses the same wire for their internals? Not very expensive, bulk. Sounds great on the old Quads with matching vintage tube amps running top tier glass.
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Perhaps before you spend money on speaker wire $$ just do the lamp cord thing. Maybe it's me but I doubt the wire is the major part of the muddy that goes away when bypassed. I feel it's the caps more than anything.
But please don't take offense to my comment it's just my view.
Many years back I rebuilt my IRS v cross over wires. As I changed the magnets. My choice was monster cable lol why it was the hi end brand of the time. It's a fine strand teflon coated wire. It was infinities choice and recomendation of the time too.
Did it improve anything and keep in mind my speakers have more cross over wire than almost any speaker made.
Each side has 12 mids and 36 tweeters and they are about 8 feet high. If it did it was not a jaw dropping event
recnently I had a new cross over made for them externally
including the active cross over and imp matching box for the mid / tweeter tower amp.
That was a big improvemt. It was built by ps audio and designed and voiced by arnie nudel who made them
analog stuff.
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
Dacs lampi variousComment
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I'm down to Inakustik Or Graditeck to rewire my speakers. I thought I had some bulk cable from Inakustik, but that fell through. The dealer is offering me a very good price on a 3 meter demo which I could cut up. The Graditeck dealer has some strips of bulk I may be able to pick up. Will know more this weekend. I already have Graditeck as my main speaker cable. Its nice. I don't have alot to compare to, but it easily bested the Anti Cable I was using.PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect.Comment
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What kind of price range are you looking at? I'd say if they recommend the Morrow try it. I love my Morrow cables. Would never describe them as being cloudy!Steve Lefkowicz
Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
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Analog 1: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 10X5 MK.II Low, iPhono2/iPowerX; Analog 2: Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Talisman S, iFi iPhono.
Digital: Geekom Mini PC (i5, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, JRiver Media Center 29, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz Studio), iFi NEO iDSD, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2, Audioquest Jitterbug FMJ.
Electronics: Jolida Fusion (fully upgraded) line-stage, DIY passive line-stage, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso
Speakers: Tekton Perfect SET 15, Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7
Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Audioquest Evergreen
Speaker cables: WyWyres Diamond, Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet, Audioquest Type 5
Digital cables: Aural Symphonics USB, iFi Gemini twin-head USB.
Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan rack, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 600 ohm, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More Triple Driver IEMComment
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Looking like $800. Morrow 4 was $1,000PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect.Comment
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I have also been agonizing over the crossover. I am going to pull it off the frame where it vibrates like the dickens. It would be easy to put it on the floor. Requires more cable. Elevated I could use a lot less wire and of equal lengths. Less wire, less signal degradation and less money. But it is now a mass behind an open baffle speaker????? Plus harder to design and keep from tipping over.PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect.Comment
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Perhaps use a type of vibration isolater methodanalog stuff.
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
Dacs lampi variousComment
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I have my crossover sand designed. I am going to try and get the new Graditeck wires installed this weekend.PAP Trio 15 Coax speakers, Dartzeel NHB108, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp, Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, STST Motus II TT, Vertere SG1 arm, Aidas Durawood cartridge, Allnic H1201 Phono pre, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, LPS to Modem Router and Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cabling throughout network, Torus WM45BAL isolation transformer with Benjamin custom 120 volt single phase panel distributing to branch circuits. Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire.10 awg dedicated branch circuits to amps bolted to power cords. Significant upgrades to 120 volt main power panel such as all copper grounds and neutrals. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air speaker and Interconnect.Comment
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I read these post very early this morning so I waited to digest the thoughts of what was being shared before sharing my thoughts. While I do strive to get everything out of my system that removes all the room boundaries including speaker placement, low back seating, power management (meaning clean power and parallel current high grade receptacles and power cables) , room acoustics specifically to bass management and 1st and 2nd reflection points on all room surfaces. While I will always applaud anyone who strives to make improvements to their room I could never see myself trying to get sound improvement by playing around with the internal wires of my speakers in this case Vandersteen 5a's. Lastly kudos to all who are willing to try. I would love to here back if the final results were worth the endeavorComment
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