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  • #16
    Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

    Possibly but if we figure a factor of 4 markup:

    A3 cost = $2500

    S1 cost = $4000

    S3 cost = $7000

    S5 cost = $9750

    Point is that gives Magico a lot of room for better parts, enclosures, etc as we move up the line. The only Speaker whose sales may be affected are the S1s.
    Those are valid points Myles. The A series lacks the overall refinement of the S Mk2 series incl: features like the diamond-coated BE tweeter, computer-modelled dynamatted polymer midrange enclosure, curved cabinet & machined 3D convex top plate.
    Last edited by Bodhi; 12-21-2017, 10:36 PM.

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    • #17
      A cost saving measure that a lot of companies take when they issue a lower model in a line, is the manufacturing location, will this be in CA totally (parts manufactured, assembled) or a little further south.
      Chris
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      Kef 201/2, Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE, Manley Chinook, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV20x2L, ExaSound e32, Acoustic Zen cables. (Office): Vincent SP331 Mkll, Quicksilver Pre, Lumin D1, (Ken Lau Signiture Edition PSU), Bryston BCD-1, Vapor Audio Breeze, WooAudio W6se, HD800, HD600, Mr Speaker Ether C Flow,

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      • MylesBAstor
        MylesBAstor commented
        Editing a comment
        Well to be honest, the drivers are made in four countries. The rest Magico has the in house facilities to do eg. enclosures, etc so that keeps costs down. The question I have is how long can Magico go in price in the A-series line and still keep an Al enclosure? And anodizing, etc.? Maybe the next is a small bookshelf model?

      • cpp
        cpp commented
        Editing a comment
        Cajun flavor? hum, like like spicy and smooth

        Myles that will be the big question, nothing is manufactured on the cheap in the USA ( Labor, parts etc..) If they bring on a bookshelf, that always starts a series of issues, will these new lower tier speaker models really make into the hands of those with less funds and still perform above a competitor with a lower priced model or will it be move to outsourcing manufacturing to bring the price down to be competitive and promote sells.. I guess time will tell. I can't wait to hear these new speakers.
        Last edited by cpp; 12-11-2017, 12:48 PM.

      • Bodhi
        Bodhi commented
        Editing a comment
        From memory, Magico buy the carbon fibre from a US supplier, then it is sent to Europe for cone forming, then onto specialist Japenese firms to apply the resin with Nanotubes and graphene layer, then back to Europe to fit the spider, upper surround and voice coil, then finally to either Morel or Scan Speak who build the baskets and magnet systems, and do final assembly before being shipped back to Magico for final testing before installation. So it's a team effort! Though it is important to note that Magico still design their own drivers & control the design process. The suppliers then build the parts to their spec. Re: the A series, Magico have been able to constrain costs by using a simplified version of previous generation cabinets & lower spec drivers than the S series (ie: BE dome vs Diamond-coated BE dome, overhung vs underhung motor systems etc), otherwise the build process is basically the same.

    • #18
      Originally posted by Bodhi View Post
      Those are valid points Myles & why i'm not phased as an S5 Mk2 owner. The A series lacks the overall refinement of the S Mk2 series incl: features like the diamond-coated BE tweeter, computer-modelled dynamatted polymer midrange enclosure, curved cabinet & machined 3D convex top plate. And as for the graphene-fetish of one neurotic S3 Mk2 owner on another forum, the magical heretofore unknown powers of the graphene-reinforced multi wall carbon Nano-tec bass diaphragms have been comprehensively debunked. In any case that's the way the whole Magico range is going, hence you don't need a crystal ball to predict what the future replacement for the S5 Mk2 & S7 will look like. In conclusion, we'll have to wait and see what the market's response is as new models like an A5 are released. Rant finished.
      I just read on another forum from a dealer that the A3 will be the largest speaker in the series. Expect an A1 or A2 but not an A5.
      SME 30/12A, SME V-12, MySonicLab Signature Gold, Air Tight Supreme, Pass Labs XA160.5, XP-22, XP-25, Magico Q3, Magico Mini II

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      • #19
        Originally posted by PeterA View Post

        I just read on another forum from a dealer that the A3 will be the largest speaker in the series. Expect an A1 or A2 but not an A5.
        Yeah I saw that commentary too. If that is the case, I think that's a smart move. An A5 model with twin 9's or 10's would have definitely eaten into S series sales & would not have been a good business decision (unless you wanted to sell more A series speakers). Certainly the S series with the possible exception of the S1 Mk2 will still be a level up in sound from the A3 given their superior cabinets, computer-modelled polymer midrange enclosure, diamond-coated BE tweeter & bigger bass drivers.
        Last edited by Bodhi; 12-21-2017, 10:31 PM. Reason: typo

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        • #20
          Originally posted by Bodhi View Post

          Yeah I saw that commentary too. If that is the case, I think that's a smart move. An A5 model with twin 9's or 10's would have definitely eaten into S series sales & would not have been a good business decision (unless you wanted to sell more A series speakers). Certainly the S series with the possible exception of the S1 Mk2 will still be a level up in sound from the A3 given their superior cabinets, computer-modelled polymer midrange enclosure, diamond-coated BE tweeter & bigger bass drivers.
          Yes and the mid enclosure and curved surfaces including the top plate has a big impact on the sound of the speaker. Take the mids of the S5 Mk. 1 vs. S3 Mk.1. Then Alon added the mid enclosure in the S5 Mk.2 and a big difference. More coherency and better transisition between the bass and midrange. Then he used carbon fiber for the mid enclosure in the M3.

          I also don’t understand the criticism of the M3 midrange and tweeter. Properly set up, the M3 is just much less mechanical sounding and more musical than the the S5. Plus it just retrieves more subtle info. If you don’t here that, look elsewhere for the problem, not the speaker. Now if you want to talk dynamics and low end frequency extension vis a vis S5 vs. M3, that’s another thing. But the M-Pro and M3 are cut from the same sonic cloth.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART300 40th Anniversary monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 and Thoress Mk. 2 phonostages; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/12-inch Fat Boy, Klaudio arm, Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, MPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

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          • #21
            Bravo to Alon and Magico!


            Magico's products get better year after year, and the A3 should be no different, Regardless of the Specs or cabinet enclosure! seems like some don't want to accept it?


            I'm trusting Alon and Magico on this new speaker!
























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            • Bodhi
              Bodhi commented
              Editing a comment
              I don't see that. There has been a bit of debate/speculation, but I think the commentary has been very positive overall. I personally think the new series offer amazing bang for the buck & should be a great success!

          • #22
            The older bolt together design may be due to the expense incurred for new extrusion dies. The A series can be done in the Magico shop with existing equipment. The existing equipment might otherwise get less use as production of the S series ramps up and the new carbon fibers style speakers start to replace the existing Q line.

            Makes sense to me.

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            • #23
              A product is only be considered good, if it retains high second hand value over the years. I had bought a new pair of S5 after market search, auditioning etc. and a year later MK2 version is announced. Same happened to S3 owners. Magico speakers cannot be upgraded when the higher MK versions come to the market. People have spent lots of money for Q Line and all of us know it will not exist soon. The old series with wooden cabinet also have the same problem. M5 is a disaster for the owners. The retail price was $90.000 and you can get one for more or less $20.000 after couple of years. I believe Magico is a perfect choice for very rich and second hand hunters. The make excellent designs and even if you buy an old product it is still current technology. I want to upgrade my S5 to S7 but I will do it when the S7mk2 version hits the market. So I get a used S7 for less than half of current retail price.
              Magico S5, Krell FBP700cx, Audio Research Ref40 Anniversary, Audio Research Ref 2 Phono, dCS Rossini DAC, dCS Rossini Clock, Macbook Pro with Audirvana, Transparent Ref XL cables, Shunyata Sigma Digital power cord, Acoustic Solid One Turntable with Acoustic Solid tonearm and Triplanar Mk. VII, Transfiguration Phoenix, Vandenhul MC1, Benz Gulwing SLR

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              • Bodhi
                Bodhi commented
                Editing a comment
                No, prior to my S5 Mk2's I owned S5 Mk1's for 2 years. But such was the level of improvement in the S5 Mk2 that I knew I had to upgrade. Now before you say "Ha, wait till the S5 Mk2's replacement comes along!", before I bought my S5 Mk2's I owned a pair of Infinity Reference 60's which I owned for 18 years as they ticked all the boxes for me, yet I regret not saving up & buying Renaissance 90's back then as the Rens were so much better, yet not significantly more expensive in the scheme of things. That's why I decided to buy the S5 Mk2's; they were the Ren 90's I wished i'd bought back in the early 90's (if that makes sense).

              • Dre_J
                Dre_J commented
                Editing a comment
                "Now before you say 'Ha, wait till the S5 Mk2's replacement comes along!',"

                Nope, Didn't cross my mind.

                Just looking for perspective.

              • Bodhi
                Bodhi commented
                Editing a comment
                Sorry Dre, my guard is still up from previously being on Audioshark “the unfriendly forum” where trolling is rife. In my 30 years of being an audiophile, the S5 Mk2’s were the first speakers which reminded me of the Ren 90’s, which were the sweet spot of the classic Infinity speakers produced in the 90’s. Did Infinity produce better speakers back then? Sure, the IRS-Sigma was like the Magico M3, and the IRS-Epsilon was like the M6 of its day. For me, the S5 Mk2’s are the sweet spot in Magico’s current range.

            • #24
              Originally posted by geceon View Post
              A product is only be considered good, if it retains high second hand value over the years. I had bought a new pair of S5 after market search, auditioning etc. and a year later MK2 version is announced. Same happened to S3 owners. Magico speakers cannot be upgraded when the higher MK versions come to the market. People have spent lots of money for Q Line and all of us know it will not exist soon. The old series with wooden cabinet also have the same problem. M5 is a disaster for the owners. The retail price was $90.000 and you can get one for more or less $20.000 after couple of years. I believe Magico is a perfect choice for very rich and second hand hunters. The make excellent designs and even if you buy an old product it is still current technology. I want to upgrade my S5 to S7 but I will do it when the S7mk2 version hits the market. So I get a used S7 for less than half of current retail price.
              I think there's a lot to digest there.

              1. What is the average lifetime of an audio product? For most, it's three years; something like the cj ART and GAT ran 7 years before an update and that was extraordinary.

              2. Updating: I can't think of any speaker in the last five or ten years that has been updated? Certainly not Wilson, YG, Focal or others. Plus the changes were so radical down to the cabinet that updating was out of the question. Even the cost of shipping would be prohibitive. I paid $2000 in shipping just to get my S5 from CA.

              3. Support: I don't think Magico or any other high-end company fails to support older products.

              4. Perception: Just because there's a newer product out doesn't make what you have suck all of a sudden. Very few audiophiles have for instance, maxed out the capabilities of their present speaker eg. amps, front-end, cables, etc. So there's lot of other ways of getting more out of your speakers without resorting to buying new speakers.

              5. While I understand your frustration, what would you have manufacturers do? Let's take Wilson for example now. The changes to the cabinet, etc precluded updates to their models too.

              6. If you want to complain about planned obsolescence, how about digital (maybe excluding FPGA units)? Don't hear about those expensive pieces being updateable. About the only product you see that is regularly updateable are turntables. Perhaps the real question should be about updateability of high-end products as a whole.

              7. Retaining value: I think there was a thread early on in the forum's existence as to whether it was a buyers market on Audiogon? I think the same thing holds true here. But how much value do you expect a ten years or older product to retain? What in life retains any value any more?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART300 40th Anniversary monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 and Thoress Mk. 2 phonostages; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/12-inch Fat Boy, Klaudio arm, Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, MPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

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              • #25
                While I agree 100% with Myles, I must say that there as a consumer I very much appreciate manufacturers that design their products in a manner that allows them to make updates available to their customers. Case in point has been EMM Labs whose current equipment is modular. Recently they provided a through update to their ten year XDS1. Likewise they have made upgrades to other products available. On the other hand, I have taken a bath on Esoteric digital products when an upgrade came out. Note that it is however virtually impossible to upgrade speakers.
                Rockport Sirius turntable, Lyra Atlas SL cartridge, Ypsilon Phono stage, Audio Note M10 (Signature) linestage, EMM Labs TX2/DA2 digital, Audio Note Balanced Kegon amps, EMM Labs MTRX amps, Acapella Triolons, Jorma Prime and Odin 2 cables, Stage 3 Kraken power cords, HB Marble Powerslave, Finite Elemente Pagode Reference stands and Cerabases, Halcyonics active isolation bases, Loricraft and Audiodesk vinyl cleaners, Yamaha CT7000 Tuner.

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                • Bodhi
                  Bodhi commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Fred, Vitus Signature Series products like the SCD-025 Mk2 are also modular in design, allowing for easy upgrading as new modules become available. That helps future-proof the platform which adds value for existing owners. Mind you the previous SCD-025 Mk1 couldn't be upgraded to Mk2 spec due to the size of the upgrade, so you need to know when to jump on board. The Emm Labs are good value products at their respective price point btw .

              • #26
                Here is another blog spot on the A3's. Off-topic, I found this web page makes for interesting reading, as does this thread .
                Last edited by Bodhi; 12-22-2017, 03:05 AM.

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                • #27
                  Found this online. the A3 speakers should be a homerun from Magico!


                  http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/737

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                  • #28
                    Originally posted by Purevinyl View Post
                    Found this online. the A3 speakers should be a homerun from Magico!


                    http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/737
                    Interestingly, the cabinets are made off site by a manufacturer with greater volume capabilities than Magico has. I guess this keeps the cost down. The reference to the V3 is also interesting. A new A3 costs about the same as a used V3, and supposedly sounds better. I think the V3 was about $30K new. I wonder how it would compare to my Mini II and the S3II. A dealer told me that they have to order two pairs at a time. I can see these pairing well with a Pass integrated amp and digital source. Nice and simple, good sound, and great value.
                    SME 30/12A, SME V-12, MySonicLab Signature Gold, Air Tight Supreme, Pass Labs XA160.5, XP-22, XP-25, Magico Q3, Magico Mini II

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                    • #29
                      Originally posted by PeterA View Post

                      Interestingly, the cabinets are made off site by a manufacturer with greater volume capabilities than Magico has. I guess this keeps the cost down. The reference to the V3 is also interesting. A new A3 costs about the same as a used V3, and supposedly sounds better. I think the V3 was about $30K new. I wonder how it would compare to my Mini II and the S3II. A dealer told me that they have to order two pairs at a time. I can see these pairing well with a Pass integrated amp and digital source. Nice and simple, good sound, and great value.
                      What's your logic for saying the A3s will pair well with a digital source and no mention of analog?
                      SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

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                      • Rob
                        Rob commented
                        Editing a comment
                        i think he means the person thats says they're downsizing from separates to an integrated/streamer/dac because having two or more free shelves in their rack will liberate them somehow

                      • mep
                        mep commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Is that for when you move into assisted living?

                    • #30
                      Originally posted by mep View Post

                      What's your logic for saying the A3s will pair well with a digital source and no mention of analog?
                      My comments are only based on budget and simplicity. I'm not saying that the A3s will sound better with digital than with analog, I'm only saying that in my experience, good sounding digital is easier to get for less money than is good sounding analog. Of course, I may be wrong on this, it is just based on my experience with most inexpensive vinyl rigs versus the same cost digital. I think that A3s are more likely to be in a $20-30K system than in a $50-80K system. As I wrote, "Nice and simple, good sound, and great value." This was referring to a complete system. Vinyl makes a system much more complicated and expensive. My example was a pair of A3s, one box integrated amp, and one box digital CDP. That could be a great sounding, non complex system.

                      One could certainly pair the A3 with separates, computer audio, vinyl and make a beautiful sounding system also. It will be interesting to see what dealers recommend to clients given a particular system budget and music library.
                      SME 30/12A, SME V-12, MySonicLab Signature Gold, Air Tight Supreme, Pass Labs XA160.5, XP-22, XP-25, Magico Q3, Magico Mini II

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