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  • How do rectifiers effect our sound

    in rolling many recti in various audio devices.
    It's very much a game changer in sound scapes.
    What recti do others use ?
    Nos or new
    what changes do you here. ?
    Is the recti neutral , warm , open or close the stage ?
    I have read a few threads on them but not much in dacs , or preamps or amps. Recti seems to get posted for phono stages and some preamps.
    Any thoughts are very welcome.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    My tube gear uses SS power supplies so there is nothing to "roll" in terms of the rectifiers.
    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

    Comment


    • #3
      Always remember that rectifier tubes affect the stiffness of the power supply.

      Here's something my buddy Charlie King shared with me five years ago regarding rectifier tubes:

      Yes there are a number of rectifiers like the 5R4, 5U4 and the 5AR4 that can be used interchangeably - kind of. However if you look at their specifications, you'll see that (when warmed up) they all have different VOLTAGE DROPS drops, which means that they have different effective internal resistances. I used this to my advantage when I designed the power supply for my Stereo 70; 6B4G "conversion" project a number of years back. The 6B4's can't withstand nearly the same B+ as an EL34, so I substituted a 5R4 instead of the stock rectifier (5AR4?) For the same output tube current draw, the 5R4 dropped 60 volts more than the 5AR4 and 20 volts more than a 5U4 (I guess you could say by comparison that a 5U4 would drop 40 volts more than a 5AR4.

      Now the tube manufacturers didn't try to design a rectifier for a certain voltage drop but higher efficiency and greater voltage / current handling capability, so the more modern rectifiers did have a lower voltage drop, which if you think about it means that they can run "cooler" for the same current passing through it (extra voltage drop has to be dissipated as heat) - which would undoubtedly lead to much longer life. Also, the 5AR4 can pass a lot more current - overall a much more "robust" tube.

      The less the voltage drop, the lower the internal resistance and the "stiffer" the power supply will be. I think this is why people may hear differences between rectifier tubes (nomenclatures).

      Now the above doesn't deal with sonic attributes between DIFFERENT manufacturers of the SAME tube type. I never thought to try this - at the time I was too busy comparing 6B4's and (the) 6922 drivers. Gut feel is that any differences would be subtle - nowhere near the differences between manufacturers of the same nomenclature amplifying tubes.
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
      -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

      Comment


      • Dr.Ears
        Dr.Ears commented
        Editing a comment
        Rectifiers are your "tone controls", I have reasonably priced (200 each NOS) 5R4GY's that are very rare because they were only made for about a year between 1944-1945. I sold Brent Jessee a batch, buy his, I am saving mine. My metal based, made in Holland 5AR4 gets rolled in for long listening sessions, while I can only take the very dynamic WE 422A for about an hour before listening fatigue starts to set in. If, they are any NOS audio vacuum tube dealers as members, you should search your non-audio / misc stock for the
        Ratheon 5694, simply the best driver tube, which I have ever heard. Be careful, they feature a non-standard octal pin-out and were only made from 1949-1955.

      • cantorgale
        cantorgale commented
        Editing a comment
        Dr.Ears - I just bought an RCA CRC-5R4GY JAN 1940s dark brown base, double D bottom getters from Brent last week. Perhaps one of yours. It is in my Modwright PS 9 v.10 external power supply which connects to my Modwright/Oppo Sonica DAC (Telefunken E88CCs) The RCA 5R4GY is a wonderful tube. It replaced (also from Brent) an Amperex 5AR4/GZ34 - Holland, 1959; dark brown base/White Label, which was also a nice tube. 5R4GY tightened bass and brought more clarity and definition to inner voices, IMO. Fun stuff.

    • #4
      Yes but they effect the sound in many ways. Using a solid state recti sounds bad in some applications
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • #5
        Of course they affect the sound, just trying to give a little bit of a why that might help better when selecting. I would reckon that I'd the PS isn't as stiff as possible, dynamics would suffer.
        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
        ________________________________________

        -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
        -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
        -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

        Comment


        • #6
          Nothing wrong with SS power supplies in tube amps, as long as they are sufficient in design parameters. I'd say what your describing as a stiff power supply is one that is regulated or nearly regulated.
          Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

          Comment


          • #7
            My bhse and yours be in different is why I posted this.
            My electrical views says stiff regutalted. And in fact after the tube I do believe there is regilation. Yet the sound is effected Ina few ways
            warm or neutral
            staging bath depth and height
            even impact meaning hard or soft.
            Also different amps play the recti different.
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #8
              Using a tube rectifier with a high internal resistance would be bad in a tube power amp as it would limit dynamics and power output.
              Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

              Comment


              • #9
                Yes I am. It how it sounds is very different
                one device is my lampi the changing is profound
                with headphone amps it's also big but in a different venue so to speak. Being some have tube phono stages I figured you people would know. But in power amps or preamps it must matter as welll
                analog stuff.
                otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                Dacs lampi various

                Comment


                • #10
                  I use mercury 394a rectifiers.


                  Comment


                  • #11
                    What class is the recti meaning is it suitiblemin normal
                    applications.
                    Also os that a Simpson 260 meter I have not seen one of them in 20 years lol.
                    analog stuff.
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                    Dacs lampi various

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      This may be interesting, not sure how accurate but claims to have been compiled from a GE reference: http://www.300guitars.com/articles/r...ge-drop-chart/

                      Myles- your excerpts from Charlie raised the question whether different manufactured source of the same precise tube model could have different characteristics, apart from the "spec" for that tube, right?

                      Guitar amps- players want sag for "crunch"- compression. I think that's why the little amps, when overdriven, sound so juicy.
                      Audiophiles- this is bad juju.

                      Comment


                      • Dr.Ears
                        Dr.Ears commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Merely the difference between "D" getters at 45 degree angles to each other versus parallel makes a huge difference in sound.

                    • #13
                      I have a many tubes same model varying maker
                      it matters. Thanks for the link
                      analog stuff.
                      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                      Dacs lampi various

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
                        I have a many tubes same model varying maker
                        it matters. Thanks for the link
                        Al- agreed, I was focusing just on the voltage drop characteristic of the "same" tube from different makers.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          The thing with tube rectifiers is that they can't push a big capacitor bank-it will murder the rectifier. However, if you use a small cap after the rectifier (20-30 mfd), then a choke, and then capacitor(s), it can drive a much higher capacitance level. That arrangement is referred to as a CLC. The choke isolates the rectifier from the capacitors after the choke.
                          Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

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