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How do rectifiers effect our sound

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  • #16
    I remember building psu many years back , both tube and later SS. Here's what I did. One of dacs is a lampi it uses a tube recti. Many values and gyros can be used. 274b,5u4g big bottles and many other models that are small bottle . Each type has its own type of sound. While a assumed there is a regulater after it , it still greatly effects the sound . Yesterday I tried a SS recti and I was surprised of its sound. My brain needs a little bit of time till I get a bead on the sound . While it played a .ittle louder it also had anew sound not like tubes to a point. Today I went by a friends place he has many sytems very nice guy. Expensive stuff. He and I like the same sounds of devices. He had a almost all of my recti and a couple I did not. Without going through the whole day As we hung out for about 4 hours. A simple 15 solid state sounded very good. As good or better than most the others. Funny right but there is two that were far better. One improvment over the tubes was bass it was very apparent the bass was deeper and more detailed. The mids were good too. The biggest improvment over the SS was space. The imaging was better a very obvious inprovemnt . The tone seems the same but the musicality improved big time. Enough to make you feel it was now real music . After hearing many sytems the biggest part of any system for me is its not sold its music. I remember going to hear my DAC at an audio salon in NYC . It was setup Ina room with Wilson alexia , dagastino mono Amps and his preamp . And my diamond msb DAC. I did bring my own music on the second trip. What I can say in a nutshell was it was not Music to me. It was sound , clean very detailed well balanced sound. That setup was hundreds of thousands I was shocked but as I did go back a few times to hear them. It never got better for me. I did a post a few times on other sites ... Do we all hear the same. As many own this type of speakers and love it.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
      I remember building psu many years back , both tube and later SS. Here's what I did. One of dacs is a lampi it uses a tube recti. Many values and gyros can be used. 274b,5u4g big bottles and many other models that are small bottle . Each type has its own type of sound. While a assumed there is a regulater after it , it still greatly effects the sound . Yesterday I tried a SS recti and I was surprised of its sound. My brain needs a little bit of time till I get a bead on the sound . While it played a .ittle louder it also had anew sound not like tubes to a point. Today I went by a friends place he has many sytems very nice guy. Expensive stuff. He and I like the same sounds of devices. He had a almost all of my recti and a couple I did not. Without going through the whole day As we hung out for about 4 hours. A simple 15 solid state sounded very good. As good or better than most the others. Funny right but there is two that were far better. One improvment over the tubes was bass it was very apparent the bass was deeper and more detailed. The mids were good too. The biggest improvment over the SS was space. The imaging was better a very obvious inprovemnt . The tone seems the same but the musicality improved big time. Enough to make you feel it was now real music . After hearing many sytems the biggest part of any system for me is its not sold its music. I remember going to hear my DAC at an audio salon in NYC . It was setup Ina room with Wilson alexia , dagastino mono Amps and his preamp . And my diamond msb DAC. I did bring my own music on the second trip. What I can say in a nutshell was it was not Music to me. It was sound , clean very detailed well balanced sound. That setup was hundreds of thousands I was shocked but as I did go back a few times to hear them. It never got better for me. I did a post a few times on other sites ... Do we all hear the same. As many own this type of speakers and love it.
      HI which recti, can you please let me know?

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      • #18

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        • #19
          This simple SS recti sounds very good , musical as well. Now the tak is better but hey that's 900. You must burn it in. For a few days. Notice is said on the side 48 hours. If you have some cheap,tubes you do not like use them for burn in. If not if your tubes are switch down meaning 300b or 6a3 pit the switch up instead of down. It lowers the heater current less wear on the tube. The sound is very nice and has avoid solid bass.
          it is important to pit your lampi in standby or off when inserting he SS recti. It has a higher in rush current then a tube does only if left on. Some people when swapping recti do not turn there units off. I Recomend it's off when doing it. Luke says it's fine to be on. I am taking an extra precaution.
          Plesee post what you hear.
          Thanks.

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          • #20
            Let me preface my question by saying that I understand that the choice of the particular tube rectifier that one prefers will always be in part a function of the circuit into which it is installed and the listener's sonic preferences. Given that, in the 5U4G/274b family of rectifiers do you have a particular preference? I am using a pair of Audio Note balanced Kegon mono blocks which utilize that rectifier in the power supply. In my experience, the sound of the amps is more effected by the choice of the rectifier than by any other tube choice. I like the early RCA brown base 5U4G but find it a touch "soft" for my tastes. I am currently using an early National which seems pretty linear with good dimensionality. I have been told that the two best rectifiers for my amps are the early Gold Lion and the Western Electric but have not been able to try either.

            Thanks in advance.
            Rockport Sirius/Ortofon A-90, Ypsilon Phono stage, Einstein preamp, EMM Labs TX2/DA2 digital, Audio Note Balanced Kegon amps, EMM Labs MTRX amps, Acapella Triolons, Jorma Prime and Odin 2 cables, Stage 3 Kraken power cords, HB Marble Powerslave, Finite Elemente Pagode stands, Halcyonics active isolation bases, Loricraft Audiodesk vinyl cleaners.

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            • Dr.Ears
              Dr.Ears commented
              Editing a comment
              The RCA CRC 5R4GY with twin bottom D getters at 45 degree angles to each other is a best buy. The are quieter and more neutral to my ears.

          • #21
            The KR 5u4g was better than the 274b, but it was specially made for Lampi. The other thing to note is solid plate vs mesh plate. Some prefer the airiness of the mesh plate recti, which goes along well with 300b type of sound, while solid plate Rectis have more bass and slam. There is no clear answer. It is dependent on system, music, and listener's preference

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            • Alrainbow
              Alrainbow commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes correct and I have a couple of mesh tubes. One is the eml 5U4G mesh. It's great in my head dac but not my new lampi lol. It's bad or not very good. But both tubes above are better in the B7 as well.
              The same tube in my woo amps is best by a margin with the airfoce 596 tubes. Unholy looking tubes but sound great.

          • #22
            I have all of those tubes and two that top the rest
            first is a Takayuki. I might have the spelling wrong plesee excuse this it's a 274
            but my favorite is the Westinghouse 274b from 40 to 60
            while both tubes give me wonderful music the Westinghouse has a bigger , wider stage. And your right about the circuits being used too. I have two lampi dacs and while hear two tubes sound best on both. One sounds better with a Kron 5U4G only until I put in one of two above
            Thanks so much for the reply audio is a backhole. Inescapable once you get too close. My concern is knowlwiedge and where to attain it. On the topic at hand
            I have read many posts that seem accurate but stop short of the two tubes I posted if. There is a tube it's called a 422a west it is a good tube but unless you hear the two above. So my point is I need a better understanding as to why. What the bell is going on. Is it the voltage sagging
            is the sound of electrons hitting a certain metal. It's crazy
            both of the tubes have the same frame is this it. But I have other tubes that sound great in an amp but not this dac lol.

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            • #23
              In my product line, when I design a tube preamp with a tube power supply, I prefer to build around the newer 274B. The VTPS (vacuum tube power supply) was designed to be used with any of our preamps as I feel it brings them to a whoke new level. I designed around the Sophia Electric 274B due to the sonic signature of this tube.
              Tje 274B has an open and airy sound with great extension. I call it more on the delicate side meaning it provides what I beleive to be exception detail. You can use the 5U4 as well.
              To get the most out of this tube, I find a choke input provides the beat results. Some consider it overkill for a preamp but once heard......
              A lityle more expensive to build as well but well worth it.
              My second choice is the 5R4. You can get away with a biy of a leas expensive design for ultimate results. i find it a little more romantic as compared to the 274B. Just depends on what your looking for in a design.
              All in all,iyou can get exceptional results with many different rectifiers as long as the power supply circuit is deaigned properly. Doesnt matter how good of an analog circuit you have or how good the power aupply is, if they are not optimizes to work with each other, your just wasting your time.

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              • Dr.Ears
                Dr.Ears commented
                Editing a comment
                Everything matters, even the dielectrics on all of your wires each have their own tone.

            • #24
              Originally posted by Response Audio View Post
              In my product line, when I design a tube preamp with a tube power supply, I prefer to build around the newer 274B. The VTPS (vacuum tube power supply) was designed to be used with any of our preamps as I feel it brings them to a whoke new level. I designed around the Sophia Electric 274B due to the sonic signature of this tube.
              Tje 274B has an open and airy sound with great extension. I call it more on the delicate side meaning it provides what I beleive to be exception detail. You can use the 5U4 as well.
              To get the most out of this tube, I find a choke input provides the beat results. Some consider it overkill for a preamp but once heard......
              A lityle more expensive to build as well but well worth it.
              My second choice is the 5R4. You can get away with a biy of a leas expensive design for ultimate results. i find it a little more romantic as compared to the 274B. Just depends on what your looking for in a design.
              All in all,iyou can get exceptional results with many different rectifiers as long as the power supply circuit is deaigned properly. Doesnt matter how good of an analog circuit you have or how good the power aupply is, if they are not optimizes to work with each other, your just wasting your time.
              What exactly do you mean by optimized?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 phonostage; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/Lyra Atlas SL, Ortofon A95, Charisma Reference 2 cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

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              • #25
                I can say that the same world class recti can sound very good to grany or dull in another usesage.
                I have a few tube devices and and many recti. My woo amps sound best with an airforce 596 works modded base adaptor. And the same recti in my lampi is dull. What does seem to sound consistent is solid state recti. They have there great points and not so great points. One they do very well is control the bass very well. Bad is staging and lack of that musicality that makes us love tubes.

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                • #26
                  interesting subject regarding the use, or to not use rectifier tubes.
                  One important underlying fact is that sound is incredibly subjective. Some will say they prefer the sound when a rectifier tube is used, some say they prefer solid state power supplies.
                  With all my tube gear that I build, I switched to 100% solid state power supply a few years back.
                  Apart from the two big amps in my lineup, which still use diode rectification but then choke and CRC power supply, all my other smaller amps, and preamps use solid state regulated B+ as well as regulated DC filament supplies.
                  I found that by using this setup, I have far better control of the various voltages required, it is far more stable, virtually noiseless and will stay at the regulated voltages even with variation at the power outlet.
                  None of my clients have ever given me negative feedback by me using solid state power supplies in all my builds.
                  Another plus was that I was able to use power transformers in my amps with lower high voltage secondaries since I no longer had to worry about the voltage drop when using a tube rectifier, and I could also drop the extra 5VAC filament winding on the secondary. This brought the size, weight, and cost of the power transformer down.
                  Again, I have nothing against tube rectifiers, for me and my gear, solid state is the best way to go.
                  Erhard Audio
                  Custom handcrafted tube audio gear
                  Dynaco PAS upgrade kits
                  ReVox upgrade kits and enhancements
                  www.erhard-audio.com

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