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  • Custom Designed Listening Rooms

    The importance of room acoustics can never be minimized yet why is it more often than not a total let down when you hear one of these custom designed man caves? Yes the bass in these rooms may be more linear but the system just sounds lifeless. And nuances and low level, inner details are MIA. Do the room designers actually listen to the system or just rely on measurements? Do the room designers know what good sound is? What is it that they are aiming to accomplish?
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
    -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Wonder how many people have spent big bucks on having a custom room built that ended up having to be redone because they sound horrible?
    SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

    Comment


    • #3
      Jeff Hedback desinged my room and it sounds great. I have never felt that it needed to be changed.
      Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio V3 Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS; Durand Telos and SME 3012R Tonearms, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Zero, Benz Micro LPS; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810; Studer A812; Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

      Comment


      • #4
        I remember one NY audio store spending bucks on a custom designed room and it was a complete disaster. They called it the Zero room and reportedly spent 150k on the design and build out. It was like an anechoic chamber. They ended up storing equipment boxes in it.

        I also remember back when LEDE rooms were the hot things. Total unmitigated disasters and people flushed their money down the toilet.
        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
        ________________________________________

        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
        -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
        -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
        -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
        -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mep View Post
          Wonder how many people have spent big bucks on having a custom room built that ended up having to be redone because they sound horrible?
          I guess the question is how do you know whether or not the designer has any cred? Listen to some rooms they have designed?
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
          -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
          -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • mep
            mep commented
            Editing a comment
            I think if you are going to layout serious cashish to a contractor to have a room custom built, you should personally check out a room they built before you fork over your money.

        • #6
          How many designers are there available that really know what they are doing? Are there any credentials to look for or is it just the reputation?

          I fear the answers to those questions are what I think they will be and, if so, one of the few places to check out a designers abilities is a forum like this one. Can we create a sticky thread with recommendations for designers?

          Ed
          Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof.
          https://www.edsstuff.org

          Analog: VPI Prime, 3 Belt Drive, Dual Pivot, ADS, Ortofon Windfeld Ti, Liberty B2B-1, Sky 30 Trans, Stereo Squares Dust Cover
          Amp: Rogue RP-9 + Schiit Loki + Parasound A21
          Speakers: Magnepan MMC2 + DW-M + REL T9/i
          Digital: TASCAM UH-7000, Pioneer DV-47Ai, NAD C446, Schiit Modi Multibit
          Headphones: Stax Lambda Pro, Focal Clear, Schiit Lyr 2
          Wires: Kimber Hero + 8TC + AQ Leopard

          Comment


          • MylesBAstor
            MylesBAstor commented
            Editing a comment
            Great suggestion! If want to start the thread, I will make it sticky.

        • #7
          You also have to take in the fact that perfectly measured rooms don't sound that great to the audiophile. As such, I use my room as a measuring tool and it helps me in my job. A lot of folks do not like the sound of my room. A room that measures completely flat with a RT 60 of .35s from 250Hz - 4k and with a RT 20/30 should be within 25% of that.... really does not sound "enjoyable".

          Comment


          • #8
            Im a broken record on this topic but what can I say? Carnegie Hall 1883. Philharmonic Hall 1964.
            TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Transfiguration Proteus Cart; Arcam R Phono Preamp; Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer; VTL 6.5 preamp, Pass Labs 150.8 Amp; Piega C711 Loudspeakers; Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls; Shunyata Hydra 8; Shunyata AC Cords; Synergistic Research Atmosphere Excite Level 2X AC Cords, Audio Art Ref balanced ICs, MIT Oracle IC and Magnum Speaker Cables; Schiitt Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD700 Headphones; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner

            Comment


            • #9
              I've had several dedicated rooms, but never one that was custom built from scratch.
              Mike Lavigne ought to weigh in here, since he has cataloged his experience in an elaborate build out and 'adjustments' made to that over time.

              I've had rooms that sounded pretty good out of the box, with little acoustic treatment- one, in an old brownstone, with heavy, wide plank floors, real plaster and lathe walls and pretty high ceilings with moldings. (I ran my Crosby Quads in there so perhaps they didn't have the power to energize the room in the same way as big dynamic speakers, but I also used the same room for a very large home theater system at the time and while not meant for critical listening in the same way two channel hi-fi demands, it was pretty impressive).
              I think I know the room in NYC Myles is referring to-- it was the room at the Stereo Exchange, which was very over damped.
              To me, it is as much art as science.
              I suspect that a very strong concrete floor at the bottom of the room is important, with a subfloor over that. You do want the walls to flex a bit, don't you? I like high ceilings simply because they relieve a feeling of claustrophobia for me, but I don't know if there are limits to how 'high' before that creates an issue. Cathedral ceilings are supposed to be problematic, never dealt with them though.
              Size-- how big do you need (within reason) to accommodate large bass waves?
              Dimensions- various formulae-
              Irregularly shaped walls-
              I first went to Carnegie Mellon many years ago to self-define as an acoustic designer. I eventually dropped out, and slung hi-fi for a year before returning and taking an undergraduate degree in history. What do I know? I guess I know it when I hear it.
              Do designs based solely on measurements and math = a good sounding room?

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by mep View Post
                Wonder how many people have spent big bucks on having a custom room built that ended up having to be redone because they sound horrible?
                More than you think, in the past 20 years removing wall Tampons from listening rooms was only 2nd to ejecting audiophile power cords and PLC's from systems. Probably about two dozen acoustician designed rooms that I tangled with.

                david
                Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
                Distribution: NEODIO

                Special Sales: van den Hul
                Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

                Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
                http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
                http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

                Comment


                • mep
                  mep commented
                  Editing a comment
                  How about magic curtains/drapes?

              • #11
                Originally posted by david k View Post

                More than you think, in the past 20 years removing wall Tampons from listening rooms was only 2nd to ejecting audiophile power cords and PLC's from systems. Probably about two dozen acoustician designed rooms that I tangled with.

                david
                Wall tampons?
                Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                ________________________________________

                -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
                -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                Comment


                • #12
                  Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                  Wall tampons?



                  Click image for larger version  Name:	FE72884E-83B4-47EE-B48A-80184FA7450E.jpeg Views:	10 Size:	61.5 KB ID:	109062

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                  Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
                  Distribution: NEODIO

                  Special Sales: van den Hul
                  Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

                  Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by david k View Post
                    Click image for larger version

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                    Click image for larger version

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                    this lower photo looks like a scene out of :2001 : A Space Odyssey"

                    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sony MDR-F1 Phones, Headroom Max balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

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                    • david k
                      david k commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Tamponella!
                      david

                    • user510
                      user510 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Well those black "Wall Tampons" behind the listener and off to each side do sort of remind one of the 'monolith'. And If the Wamm's were finished in white it would fit those final scenes of the movie. Of course you'd need to have the image of the floating embryo between the speakers to complete the scene...hey wait a minute! That might make good ad imagery;^)
                      -Steve
                      Last edited by user510; 02-26-2019, 05:55 PM.

                    • david k
                      david k commented
                      Editing a comment
                      You’re thinking of Barbarella!

                  • #14
                    I've voiced dozens of systems to rooms that were designed by the "experts".

                    All were problematic at best.

                    One issue that I have consistently encountered - Did the designer ever come out to the client's house to evaluate their design?

                    IME - never - not once.

                    To be clear -- the only well known designer whose work I have not encountered is Jeff Hedback, so I am not including his work in my observations.

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Thankfully I got more than one opinion on my build and acoustics. Before AND AFTER!!

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