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  • Acoustics and Measurements

    I guess I will be the first to post in this section. So I started about two years ago decided I want to treat my room and hear for myself the difference. I bought the needed measuring gear and downloaded REW for free. Next I started reading up and learning what all needed to be done. So after a year I have my room treated with bass traps, corner bass traps, ceiling bass traps, and first reflection zone panels. The difference in sound is quite shocking!!! What I learned is that from early on in life we are conditioned to the boom in bass, that is because it is not flat and it is constantly bouncing off all the surfaces in your room. When I heard correct bass for the first time it sounded terrible to me but, that was because I was conditioned to the boom all of my life without knowing it. Once I heard proper bass and music over a flat frequency range I wanted it in my room!!! I used REW to take readings of my room, speakers, subs, individually and then all together to form a reference and a place to begin. This went on for months as I got into it I learned how to do more, like I have my mids and tweeters time aligned now and my subs and bass drivers are aligned... The difference in sound quality was something you have to hear for yourself... When I have more time I will post pic's of my room and the treatment used...

  • #2
    Thanks for breaking the ice JC!

    You know in my experience, the cure is often worse than the disease with room treatment. Too much is as bad as too little. And as Art Noxon once said to me many years ago, there are rooms that shouldn't work that do work. So predicting as some are want to do about how a room sounds from pictures, dimensions, prescience, etc. is fraught with issues. Yes we all know room acoustics is often a forgotten area by some audiophiles for many different reasons, but acoustics really begins with the basic choice of room. And that room is not always the best. Or choosable. Not everyone is as lucky as MikeL and have the space to build a world class room like his. For instance, one is really behind the eight ball if starting with a square room.

    Room acoustics remind me a little bit of the fitness field. Everything is about non-linear periodization when in reality, everything is really non-linear unless one comes in and does the exact same thing every day in the gym. Same goes for acoustics. But in reality, room acoustics begin with the speaker setup and not everyone spends enough time or has the patience to play with speaker setup. Speaker positioning is really best if one gets one of their audiobuddies over to help them move the speakers around while they listen. Or having your dealer really assist in the setup as does a company like Wilson. But only then, when one has exhausted all the possibilities should they start playing with room acoustics.

    But eventually, room acoustics need to be addressed to unlock the potential of all audio systems! Look forward to reading the rest of your room acoustics journey!
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
    -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

    Comment


    • #3
      IMHO measurements are nice to help experienced people carrying diagnostics, to help people to know the possible problems of their rooms, but of little help to solve them in high-end stereo systems. Surely HT is a different zone.

      I spent a lot of time playing with REW and reading to find that the acoustic setups and positioning according to measurements were not the optimum for listening. And the more you read the more you realize that each expert on acoustics has different opinion - a nice think, you can pick what you prefer!


      My opinions rely on listening mainly to acoustical, non amplified music. I do not care about electronic music or listening to rock at stadium levels, but I enjoy Mahler and Shostakovitch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by microstrip View Post
        IMHO measurements are nice to help experienced people carrying diagnostics, to help people to know the possible problems of their rooms, but of little help to solve them in high-end stereo systems. Surely HT is a different zone.

        I spent a lot of time playing with REW and reading to find that the acoustic setups and positioning according to measurements were not the optimum for listening. And the more you read the more you realize that each expert on acoustics has different opinion - a nice think, you can pick what you prefer!

        I whole idea behind the measurements was to have a starting point, So getting the bass to stop bouncing all over the room was the first step. Then getting a flat response across the frequency range was next and now I have a good starting point... From here it just a matter personal likes and dislikes, Eq the room to your own taste but; you must have a starting point to go back to...

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        • #5
          Hi JC,

          I'd be interested in seeing your measurements. I purchased the XTC Room Analyzer but haven't really used it yet, even though I have my treatments up. Maybe after tax season I'll take current measurements of my room. My room might be a little bit over damped given what I installed right now...

          Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by allenh View Post
            Hi JC,

            I'd be interested in seeing your measurements. I purchased the XTC Room Analyzer but haven't really used it yet, even though I have my treatments up. Maybe after tax season I'll take current measurements of my room. My room might be a little bit over damped given what I installed right now...
            Allen Hi,
            you really won't know much until you measure unless it is way bad!!! I will find the links and post them..

            Jay

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jcmusic View Post
              I used REW to take readings of my room, speakers, subs, individually and then all together to form a reference and a place to begin...When I have more time I will post pic's of my room and the treatment used...
              I have this precise interest as well...look forward to viewing the pics.

              Sam

              Vbr,

              Sam

              Comment


              • #8
                As a side remark, 99.99% of the audio forum threads, as this one, broadly refer to measurements as if acoustic measurements are something simple and defined, as measuring the voltage in a circuit. In reality we have many type of measurements in acoustics, that can be realized in very different conditions - I never have the time to fully explore REW. It would be great to read about debates concerning specific measurements in well described situations and how they were used to optimize rooms but unfortunately I have not been able to find such thing, except for bass frequencies. But IMHO what separates the average listening room from the very good one is the amount and placement of reflection, diffusion and absorption zones in a room above the Schroeder frequency.

                BTW, for my taste, most of the treated rooms I have been in sounded dead and un-natural - like studios, not like life performances. But it is just my opinion, yours will probably be different! And yes, drums at ear shattering volume sounded great in these rooms, but I can not stand more than five minutes.

                My opinions rely on listening mainly to acoustical, non amplified music. I do not care about electronic music or listening to rock at stadium levels, but I enjoy Mahler and Shostakovitch.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guys I can not load the files so I will have to make snap shots and then post as a pic. This will take a lil time, will try to get to it later.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok lets try this again! Forgive me new laptop and I am unfamiliar with it to this point.
                    Last edited by jcmusic; 03-20-2016, 02:26 PM.

                    Comment


                    • microstrip
                      microstrip commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Can you write a short comment just to tell what you are showing in these measurements? Why does the 1/12 octave smoothing look flatter than the 1/3 dB octave ones - are using full range DSP equalization?

                  • #11
                    JC - Please list your measuring equipment and where it was purchased. What is REW and where is it downloaded? I'm still stuck in the it sounds good or it doesn't sound good method.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Hi Rust,
                      You can download REW from the Home Shack Theater website, the gear I used is a Behringer ECM 8000 mic and a M Audio Mobile Pre. Once you get to the Home Shack Theater site all the info is there.

                      Comment


                      • Rust
                        Rust commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thanks

                    • #13
                      JC, does your listening collaborate with the measurements? Flattish except for the bass humps at 30 and 90? What treatments are you using?
                      Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by allenh View Post
                        JC, does your listening collaborate with the measurements? Flattish except for the bass humps at 30 and 90? What treatments are you using?
                        Allen, Yes for the most part it does, I am using 2 corner bass traps above the speakers, 2 ceiling bass traps in line with the speaker axis and listening position, 2 more super bass traps straddling half ceiling and half wall in the rear, also 2 first reflection zone panels, heaving 9X12 throw rug over a tile floor, slome medium light curtains. The room is also EQed.
                        The pics I posted are just of the frequency response later I will post the waterfall and impulse response measurements.

                        Comment


                        • c1ferrari
                          c1ferrari commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Thanks.

                      • #15
                        What are ceiling bass traps? Can you show a pic?

                        What EQ do you use?
                        Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

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