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I need help taming a "hardness" in my basement room.

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  • #16
    I would get Dynamat and put it on the duct. It is made to damp metal vibration in automobiles. It will take all the ring out of the ductwork. you may also be sensing the whistle of air in the duct and think its part of the music.

    I would then go with Joes wall treatment. I have been in his room and it plays very well. It is simple to install. Unfortunately plywood just went up 25%. You don't need the chase way in the bottom for electrical. Joe experiments so he added a nice bit of versatility. I would for sure include 10 AWG feeds to equipmpent since this allows easy installation of new feeds. I dont think it will do anything for ringing, but it will add balance to the room.
    Pure Audio Project Trio 10/Voxativ, Transition Audio 811A Triode monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI, Custom TT with Vertere tone arm, Allnic H1201, Denon 103R Midas Saphire with line contact diamond. Mojo Audio CAT Server with remote Illuminati power supply, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC. Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

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    • #17
      Dynamat on the ducts sounds like a great idea to me. That's what I would start with.

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      • #18
        I’ve looked into Dynamat. It’s another good thought. I woke up this morning wondering if it isn’t the metal itself but the whirling sound of the air traveling through the duct that I’m hearing and my brain is attaching it to the music. As soon as I’m home from work today I’ll try listening with the heat off. That would be a potential explanation for why sometimes the sound is great or I don’t seem bothered, since the blower isn’t always running.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Audioraven View Post
          Dynamat on the ducts sounds like a great idea to me. That's what I would start with.
          That's a lot of dynamat. Any idea of how much it would cost to implement that idea for his room?
          SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

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          • Jtycho
            Jtycho commented
            Editing a comment
            Dynamat doesn’t need to completely cover the duct, a strip of it can be placed every foot or so and that should help any ringing of the metal. That certainly won’t help soundproof the the duct, but combined with some type of absorbative material covering the entire length it should be pretty effective. Regardless I’m going to start cheap and throw up blankets and some old absorbers I have in the house. Even if that makes the sound worse, I’ll know if it removes the specific frequency issue that is driving me crazy.

          • Audioraven
            Audioraven commented
            Editing a comment
            A set of 9 (18" X 32") sheets will cost you $155 on Amazon. They can be cut into smaller sizes, if so desired.

        • #20
          Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
          I would get Dynamat and put it on the duct. It is made to damp metal vibration in automobiles. It will take all the ring out of the ductwork. you may also be sensing the whistle of air in the duct and think its part of the music.

          I would then go with Joes wall treatment. I have been in his room and it plays very well. It is simple to install. Unfortunately plywood just went up 25%. You don't need the chase way in the bottom for electrical. Joe experiments so he added a nice bit of versatility. I would for sure include 10 AWG feeds to equipmpent since this allows easy installation of new feeds. I dont think it will do anything for ringing, but it will add balance to the room.
          This has nothing to do with his problem and please explain how adding some 10 AWG wiring going to add "balance" to a room.
          SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

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          • #21
            Dynamat is only used "sparingly". The Soundproofcow mat is the real money, I have used that material and it really blocks noise. Much better than any drywall and insulation.

            If your going to put a wall up, put proper wiring and plumbing etc behind it. That was my only point about wiring. Good opportunity as it lays right on the surface in a channel.
            Pure Audio Project Trio 10/Voxativ, Transition Audio 811A Triode monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI, Custom TT with Vertere tone arm, Allnic H1201, Denon 103R Midas Saphire with line contact diamond. Mojo Audio CAT Server with remote Illuminati power supply, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC. Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

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            • #22
              Click image for larger version  Name:	307_A643_E-9386-4113-_A2_D3-11_D70_A096_FF0.jpg Views:	2 Size:	152.4 KB ID:	84691 I’ve taken some small steps and they’ve yielded huge improvements. I first experimented by playing guitar in different spots of the room. I noticed that the sound was particularly hollow and a bit tinny right in the area where my speakers are. This may have been a combination of the floor, ductwork, or simply bad acoustics so the first thing I did was remove all room treatments. I put down an additional thin rug under the speakers and this was an immediate, though slight improvement.

              I experimented with covering the ductwork. Though I don’t think it was any type of physical rattling of the metal that hurt the sound the lowered noise floor was a massive improvement. Accepting that covering the ductwork was a sound idea I covered a good bit of it with Dynamat then the front with 2” of vicoustic foam. For the bottom portion I used 1” of closed seal foam. I worked slowly and listened as I was worried about over damping the space. With the exposed ceiling rafters and the general liveliness of the room this didn’t seem to be an issue. Now with the furnace running I have to focus intently to hear any airflow.

              With these small steps I’d say I’ve cut back on 90% of the hardness that plagued my system. A little focus has been lost without room treatments so I’ve ordered a few poly diffusers from acoustic geometry to experiment with.

              On on the whole I think I’m on the right track and have regained hope for my room. So thank you all for you help!
              Attached Files

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              • jonathanhorwich
                jonathanhorwich commented
                Editing a comment
                Let us know how the Acoustic Geometry panels work in your room, I assume you would place them between and behind your speakers where there are flat panels now. In my experience Acoustic Geometry makes the best acoustic panels I've tried. Most flat panels do not sound good and just dull the sound down.
                Last edited by jonathanhorwich; 06-03-2018, 12:35 PM.

              • Jtycho
                Jtycho commented
                Editing a comment
                Yes two on the doors between the speakers and two at the first reflection points. Thank you for your prior advice!

              • jonathanhorwich
                jonathanhorwich commented
                Editing a comment
                This will be an excellent test as you already tamed most of it so we'll see what the final step does.

            • #23
              Glad it turned out well for you. It's always a good feeling to tune the system and have it work out right.
              Pure Audio Project Trio 10/Voxativ, Transition Audio 811A Triode monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI, Custom TT with Vertere tone arm, Allnic H1201, Denon 103R Midas Saphire with line contact diamond. Mojo Audio CAT Server with remote Illuminati power supply, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC. Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

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              • #24
                Treatment added. Problems solved. Thanks everyone. Click image for larger version

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                • #25
                  Just want to add a quick follow up, because I learned an important lesson through this entire process. For all the radical solutions I was looking for in the end it came down to two critical issues: speaker placement and general room acoustics. A combination of more precise speaker placement and proper room treatments was all it took. Thanks for your help everyone.

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