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Explaining Why It Is Possible To Localize Performers Onstage

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  • Explaining Why It Is Possible To Localize Performers Onstage

    A lot to slog through but some insights into why we can localize where performers are on a stage. Including how the hall contributes to this effect.

    http://www.davidgriesinger.com/Acous...b_sound_3.pptx
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

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  • #2
    I always appreciated the inserts that came with some Japanese D2D LPs with a 'map' or diagram of where the performers sat relative to the stage. Corroborating the map to the sonic picture your system is capable of unraveling was another thing...it was quite system dependent, esp front to back depth, layering, etc.
    Linn Kilmax LP12 | Linn Uphorik | Innous ZENMini | Kii Three

    Comment


    • Tech7738
      Tech7738 commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes those are useful diagrams, but addressing an entirely different issue. It is critical to realize that the Griesiger model also explains part of why creating a correct and palpable soundstage using two channels and two speakers in a room is impossible, and the diagrams can never be precisely matched. There are issues in the total system that exist outside the hearing mechanism creating a poor interface.

    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      There was a TAS reader--Myles will recall him--who's letters to the editor were often published in TAS about how HP's descriptive prose regarding sound stage recreation was in his imagination and in so many words, poppycock (stick clapping test)

  • #3
    http://ecousticsystems.com/sites/def...0paper%201.pdf
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
    -Ensemble Fuoco hybrid integrated amplifier
    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

    Comment


    • #4
      Wow Myles I read these and have printed them out to high light parts. A change a rectifier tube this effects many parameters. One being where we sit to the stage I always wondered how or why this was effected. In Reading this
      can it be upper harmonics ? Wow never considered this or may other notes in these papers
      thanks for posting the links
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • Tech7738
        Tech7738 commented
        Editing a comment
        The result of a rectifier change could indeed be related to upper harmonics, but also many other things. The answers to what changes with a change in rectifier tube are measurable as they must alter the signal presented to the speakers. Many things could change, none would escape detection. The issue has never been the inability to measure the change, it's always been correlation of measurements to audible thresholds. Don't know why this hasn't been done. It would be useful to put audible thresholds on the changes, and would answer a lot of questions about rectifier tube rolling.

    • #5
      Ok tech7738 if we can measure let's make plenty of money in making a SS one please. I'll buy all we need to try this.
      I have tried many ways to make a SS one sound like tubes
      I am not trolling you. You seem to know much more on this tech side then me no kidding
      I have tried many type diodes even ones no one ever tried
      many caps and chokes. Yes made them better but never got close to the best of them.
      A few Greats are
      us airforce 596
      we 274b
      tak replica of above
      kron 5u4g both RK and KR
      ps vane gets some of the sound as do others in replicas
      please I'm very willing to give this a go.
      I use SS plug recti for burn in and yes even as is there is attributes to Desire but it's a short list lol.
      Help me and we can make a fortune man.
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • #6
        Well, we could, and could perhaps even put a couple of tweakers to adjust various tube emulation parameters....but why? They wouldn’t be tubes. They wouldn’t look like them, wouldn’t get hot, etc. in other words, we replicate the effects but none of the non-audio sensory input. For acceptance they would demand a breakdown of a belief system that is not only harmless, but positive toward the achievement of, well, audio nirvana.

        We can model entire tube amps perfectly well, to the extent the model is audibly indistinguishable, and the model fails in acceptance because the listener is fully conscious that the technology in use is of a less preferable type (DSP vs real tubes). The project would be a technical success and a commercial failure at the same time. At least, that’s how I see it.

        But if you want a one-off custom project, that’s another matter.

        Comment


        • #7
          Rectifiers burn at full output once on. Any LAMPI owner would have to own them. Even if they own the real ones
          headphone users too. Then comes amps. I agree it's not hot and does not glow but I have many ideas to this as well.
          My email is BALDINO472003@MSN.com
          name al D
          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
          mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
          Dacs lampi various

          Comment


          • #8
            Then there's the snap of the twig behind you in the woods at night.

            Comment

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