Leo Beranek's Seminal Paper on Ranking the Sound of Concert Halls Around the World

[MylesBAstor]

eightyeighthalls(1).pdf

[banditcat200]

The pdf turns a blank page.
You can find the document on docslide.us or google eightyeihthalls
That is a very interesting document.

Looks like it is fixed. Thanks Myles.

[Ki Choi]

i'm not worthy... I have not been in any of the listed concert halls.

It's disappointing Seattle's Benaroya Hall is not on the list.

One of the best concerts I have attended was at Mechanics Hall in Worcester, MA. Although it's non-audiophile friendly rectangular in shape, it was very good sounding hall with not too much echo and no boomy bass.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'm not worthy either. Have only been to Roy Thompson Hall in Toronto and Salle Wilfrid Pelletier in Montreal.

[astrotoy]

Thanks, Myles for posting the article. Very interesting reading. I've asked some of our friends in the SF Symphony about different halls they play at on tour as well as our local Davies Hall. They told me that a very important consideration is how well the orchestra members can hear each other. In addition to the acoustical properties of the hall for the audience, the direct reflections on stage from the nearby walls, floors and ceilings (including the clouds which are often installed above the musicians) allow for better ensemble playing and improve the quality of the sound of the orchestra.

I've been fortunate in being at a fair number of the halls, both at the top and bottom of the list. Interestingly, most of the great halls were not very good as recording venues. For example, Decca chose alternate sites for their recordings in Vienna, London, Cleveland, Chicago, Montreal, Los Angeles and other cities. It turns out for recording purposes, a great hall may not be so great - among other factors, recording in an empty hall is very different acoustically than recording in a hall full of people. I have one picture in my Decca book that shows a recording done in the great Concertgebouw in Amsterdam. Decca had the first several rows of seats of the audience removed and the orchestra sitting there instead, facing backwards, toward the stage for the recording! They did that for some other recordings - including in Boston's Symphony Hall.

Of course there are some new halls which have opened since the article was written. In California alone has been Disney in LA and Weil in Sonoma, which have gotten very positive reviews. Also I am looking forward to hearing the new hall in Paris, and sometime, on my bucket list, is the Philharmonie in Berlin.

Larry

PS. When I was a consultant for the Hong Kong Space Museum in the late '70's, we had hired Bolt, Beranek and Newman as sound consultants. Very tricky in a domed theatre.

[MylesBAstor]

Two other articles by or about Leo that I found interesting before moving onto some other interesting studies about halls and their acoustics.

concerthallsrecentfindings.pdf

[MylesBAstor]

Leo-Beranek-and-Concert-Hall-Acoustics.pdf

A little more of a layman's piece on Leo's findings and contributions.

[MylesBAstor]

What was also interesting to watch was the conductors just slightly repositioning the chairs of the different orchestral sections during the rehearsal concert. Some more to the right. others back a little, etc.

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks, Myles for posting the article. Very interesting reading. I've asked some of our friends in the SF Symphony about different halls they play at on tour as well as our local Davies Hall. They told me that a very important consideration is how well the orchestra members can hear each other. In addition to the acoustical properties of the hall for the audience, the direct reflections on stage from the nearby walls, floors and ceilings (including the clouds which are often installed above the musicians) allow for better ensemble playing and improve the quality of the sound of the orchestra.

I've been fortunate in being at a fair number of the halls, both at the top and bottom of the list. Interestingly, most of the great halls were not very good as recording venues. For example, Decca chose alternate sites for their recordings in Vienna, London, Cleveland, Chicago, Montreal, Los Angeles and other cities. It turns out for recording purposes, a great hall may not be so great - among other factors, recording in an empty hall is very different acoustically than recording in a hall full of people. I have one picture in my Decca book that shows a recording done in the great Concertgebouw in Amsterdam. Decca had the first several rows of seats of the audience removed and the orchestra sitting there instead, facing backwards, toward the stage for the recording! They did that for some other recordings - including in Boston's Symphony Hall.

Of course there are some new halls which have opened since the article was written. In California alone has been Disney in LA and Weil in Sonoma, which have gotten very positive reviews. Also I am looking forward to hearing the new hall in Paris, and sometime, on my bucket list, is the Philharmonie in Berlin.

Larry

PS. When I was a consultant for the Hong Kong Space Museum in the late '70's, we had hired Bolt, Beranek and Newman as sound consultants. Very tricky in a domed theatre.

You raise an important point about there being different considerations in choosing a hall to listen in compared to record in. I didn't know all of the machinations the labels went to for their recording but I do remember reading somewhere about the Concertgebouw.

It is interesting that Chicago doubled down as a great listening and recording hall. I always wondering why there weren't more recording made at Carnegie. Was it possibly because of their schedule and not being able to tie the hall up for three days?

[Andy]

Two other articles by or about Leo that I found interesting before moving onto some other interesting studies about halls and their acoustics.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n14911[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]temp_2250_1463258108233_44[/ATTACH]

Thanks for sharing the various articles. In this one, the following caught my attention:


"II. BRIEF HISTORY The highest rated concert halls acoustically were built before 1901"



Which, to my mind simply means, measurements aren't everything.

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks for sharing the various articles. In this one, the following caught my attention:


"II. BRIEF HISTORY The highest rated concert halls acoustically were built before 1901"



Which, to my mind simply means, measurements aren't everything.

Hence my analog to the Strad.

[Andy]

+1

[astrotoy]

In Chicago, Decca liked to use the old Medina Temple, but the CSO members liked to stay at home and record in Orchestra Hall, since all their stuff was there - lockers, etc. Medina Temple is now a Bloomingdale's store.

The great Decca engineer Wilkie Wilkinson was famous for moving chairs in the orchestra a few inches one way or another to get the sound exactly right. Woe betide the orchestra member who moved his/her chair back to its original position!

As far as some of the greatest halls being from the 1800's, most of those halls are quite a bit smaller than the more modern halls. Modern orchestra finances have a lot to do with the need to build giant halls like Davies Hall in San Francisco. Initially Davies had around 3000 seats and not very good acoustics. A $10M remodel reduced the number of seats to about 2700 and made it more rectangular and much better sounding, more like the great Concertgebouw, Symphony Hall in Boston, Musikverein in Vienna. All of those are smaller than Davies, with the Concergebouw and Musikverein smaller than 2000 seats. Of course, longer, narrower halls are more expensive to build than ones that are squarer.

Larry

[MylesBAstor]

As far as some of the greatest halls being from the 1800's, most of those halls are quite a bit smaller than the more modern halls. Modern orchestra finances have a lot to do with the need to build giant halls like Davies Hall in San Francisco. Initially Davies had around 3000 seats and not very good acoustics. A $10M remodel reduced the number of seats to about 2700 and made it more rectangular and much better sounding, more like the great Concertgebouw, Symphony Hall in Boston, Musikverein in Vienna. All of those are smaller than Davies, with the Concergebouw and Musikverein smaller than 2000 seats. Of course, longer, narrower halls are more expensive to build than ones that are squarer.

Larry

[MylesBAstor]

In Chicago, Decca liked to use the old Medina Temple, but the CSO members liked to stay at home and record in Orchestra Hall, since all their stuff was there - lockers, etc. Medina Temple is now a Bloomingdale's store.

The great Decca engineer Wilkie Wilkinson was famous for moving chairs in the orchestra a few inches one way or another to get the sound exactly right. Woe betide the orchestra member who moved his/her chair back to its original position!

As far as some of the greatest halls being from the 1800's, most of those halls are quite a bit smaller than the more modern halls. Modern orchestra finances have a lot to do with the need to build giant halls like Davies Hall in San Francisco. Initially Davies had around 3000 seats and not very good acoustics. A $10M remodel reduced the number of seats to about 2700 and made it more rectangular and much better sounding, more like the great Concertgebouw, Symphony Hall in Boston, Musikverein in Vienna. All of those are smaller than Davies, with the Concergebouw and Musikverein smaller than 2000 seats. Of course, longer, narrower halls are more expensive to build than ones that are squarer.

Larry

I haven't been to the many of the halls but Boston Symphony Hall is the best venue I've ever been to (now that the Carnegie remodel removed the hall's magic). People in Boston are really lucky and should riot if even the mention of remodeling the hall is ever mentioned. I heard Rattle and the BSO doing Mahler's 7th there many, many years ago and it was an unforgettable experience. The hall was crystal clear and I will never forget the feeling of the sound washing over oneself. It was quaint down to the chairs creaking.

The worst hall I've ever been to? Hands down Royal Festival Hall in London (though that was in 1999 (or 2000?) and things may have have changed since then). Just ghastly acoustics and absolutely hated the electronic reinforcement. Heard Yepes playing Rodrigo's Concerto Aranjuez there and they (ugh) put a mike on him. So all I heard was an 80 foot guitar. Ridiculous.

[JCOConnell]

Be careful what you wish for. It might be better to hear a 80 ft guitar than to not hear a 3 ft guitar.

[astrotoy]

RFH is terrible, especially if you are not up front and center. We normally sit pretty close, since the government still subsidizes classical music in the UK. We typically pay 35-50GBP to hear the Philharmonia, LPO, etc. for the best orchestra seats. Last year we were late in getting tickets for Barenboim playing on his new "Barenboim" piano and had to sit in the back of the balcony. We could barely hear him.

As far as guitars, apparently some guitarists have taken to using microphones all the time. We heard John Williams during his farewell retirement tour a couple of years ago, playing the Rodrigo and one other concerto at the Barbican (which has greatly improved acoustics since their remodel some years ago). He was using amplification - but from a little speaker under his seat, so there was not the huge guitar effect. We learned later that he always used the amplification.

Larry