I've Always Wondered

[MylesBAstor]

You know how we saw if I knew then what I know now.

I've always wondered about whether older cartridges were really as bad as we thought (peaky, bad trackers, etc. ) or were we hearing the effects of arms of yesteryear ringing like the Liberty Bell and the issues with phono sections? Not too mention (and we didn't necessarily have such exotic profile stylus) we didn't have the set-up tools like we do today. I remember buying a tonearm and asking about setting proper overhang and the salesman looking at me like I was from Mars. Not to mention setting azimuth and other parameters.

[JackD201]

Before my time really. You were playing with the good stuff while I was using things like Shure 44-7s with generic throw away knock off styli. I have heard other systems where friends use the likes of Ortofon SPUs and FRs, all sounding really good. Now you've made me wonder too.

[1morerecord2clean]

Well you both bring up very good points here not just in reference to cartridges of yesterday, but new cartridges made today. I have never heard a controlled demo of several cartridges costing say $1k, $2500, and $6k. Is the difference that supreme that we spend the money on very costly cartridges? So for instance I am using a Transfiguration Proteus which I like very much. On the other hand, I have a friend who uses a Lyra Kleos and another who uses a Clearaudio Maestro mm cartridge both costing far less. With no control to compare they all sound very good.

[mep]

David should chime in here as he has vast experience with tons of vintage cartridges.

[david k]

You know how we saw if I knew then what I know now.

I've always wondered about whether older cartridges were really as bad as we thought (peaky, bad trackers, etc. ) or were we hearing the effects of arms of yesteryear ringing like the Liberty Bell and the issues with phono sections? Not too mention (and we didn't necessarily have such exotic profile stylus) we didn't have the set-up tools like we do today. I remember buying a tonearm and asking about setting proper overhang and the salesman looking at me like I was from Mars. Not to mention setting azimuth and other parameters.

Have you heard some of the current offerings from Rega, ClearAudio, etc.? Not much has changed from the type of sound you describe. To answer this question properly we need to be specific with time period and the sector of the market. I have one foot firmly planted in the old and the other in the now, looking back to what was real high end analog in the 50's, 60's and even up to part of the 80'swithout any hesitation I can say that we've lost a lot in the musical and natural part. Not only with exotic Neumanns, Ortofons or EMTs of yester year but take common place mm from SHURE, Stanton, Grado or Technics, they're still setting standards and sound remarkable if one's looking for musical & natural unless one comes from Pearson's school of sound…

Before my time really. You were playing with the good stuff while I was using things like Shure 44-7s with generic throw away knock off styli. I have heard other systems where friends use the likes of Ortofon SPUs and FRs, all sounding really good. Now you've made me wonder too.

Never too late to start Jack! You've got the means and the experience now, give a vintage Shure VR15 (also with throw away stylus!) a shot!

david

[MylesBAstor]

The cartridge from yesteryear that I"d most like to hear nowadays is the Monster Cable Alpha 2. It was a great performer in its day but was always handicapped by its low output. What would it sound like in a modern tonearm and hooked up to a modern day phonostage? Maybe even throw in the Rowland Complement or Acoustic Hollograph. Or maybe even the old Kiseki Lapis Lazuli? Or maybe even John Marovski's MIT-1 cartridge?

[david k]

The cartridge from yesteryear that I"d most like to hear nowadays is the Monster Cable Alpha 2. It was a great performer in its day but was always handicapped by its low output. What would it sound like in a modern tonearm and hooked up to a modern day phonostage? Maybe even throw in the Rowland Complement or Acoustic Hollograph. Or maybe even the old Kiseki Lapis Lazuli? Or maybe even John Marovski's MIT-1 cartridge?

I miss the CJ premier 7a from the same era, should have never sold it!

david

[mep]

I miss the CJ premier 7a from the same era, should have never sold it!

david

That is a rare preamp that some people have never heard about it. You never see them come up for sale on the used market.

[david k]

That is a rare preamp that some people have never heard about it. You never see them come up for sale on the used market.

Very rare, only the 7b from time to time but they're not the same.
david

[MylesBAstor]

I miss the CJ premier 7a from the same era, should have never sold it!

david

It was a special preamplifier. IIRC it was their first and one of only two dual mono preamp designs (the other being the ART). I used to hear the 7a regularly at Tom Miiller's who had it paired with the Premier 8s and Avalons.

[DexDuophonic65]

Circa 1975: a Thorens 125 modded to fit a bolt-on Rabco linear tracker carrying a V-15 type III (MM)...would've been absolute state-of-the-art (run-through, if I remember the model designation correctly?, a Levinson ML-1).