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  • I've Always Wondered

    You know how we saw if I knew then what I know now.

    I've always wondered about whether older cartridges were really as bad as we thought (peaky, bad trackers, etc. ) or were we hearing the effects of arms of yesteryear ringing like the Liberty Bell and the issues with phono sections? Not too mention (and we didn't necessarily have such exotic profile stylus) we didn't have the set-up tools like we do today. I remember buying a tonearm and asking about setting proper overhang and the salesman looking at me like I was from Mars. Not to mention setting azimuth and other parameters.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
    -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Before my time really. You were playing with the good stuff while I was using things like Shure 44-7s with generic throw away knock off styli. I have heard other systems where friends use the likes of Ortofon SPUs and FRs, all sounding really good. Now you've made me wonder too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well you both bring up very good points here not just in reference to cartridges of yesterday, but new cartridges made today. I have never heard a controlled demo of several cartridges costing say $1k, $2500, and $6k. Is the difference that supreme that we spend the money on very costly cartridges? So for instance I am using a Transfiguration Proteus which I like very much. On the other hand, I have a friend who uses a Lyra Kleos and another who uses a Clearaudio Maestro mm cartridge both costing far less. With no control to compare they all sound very good.
      TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Transfiguration Proteus Cart; Arcam R Phono Preamp; Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer; VTL 6.5 preamp, Pass Labs 150.8 Amp; Piega C711 Loudspeakers; Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls; Shunyata Hydra 8; Shunyata AC Cords; Synergistic Research Atmosphere Excite Level 2X AC Cord & Level 3 HC AC Cord , Audio Art Ref balanced ICs, MIT Oracle IC and Magnum Speaker Cables; Schiitt Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD700 Headphones; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner

      Comment


      • #4
        David should chime in here as he has vast experience with tons of vintage cartridges.
        SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
          You know how we saw if I knew then what I know now.

          I've always wondered about whether older cartridges were really as bad as we thought (peaky, bad trackers, etc. ) or were we hearing the effects of arms of yesteryear ringing like the Liberty Bell and the issues with phono sections? Not too mention (and we didn't necessarily have such exotic profile stylus) we didn't have the set-up tools like we do today. I remember buying a tonearm and asking about setting proper overhang and the salesman looking at me like I was from Mars. Not to mention setting azimuth and other parameters.
          Have you heard some of the current offerings from Rega, ClearAudio, etc.? Not much has changed from the type of sound you describe. To answer this question properly we need to be specific with time period and the sector of the market. I have one foot firmly planted in the old and the other in the now, looking back to what was real high end analog in the 50's, 60's and even up to part of the 80'swithout any hesitation I can say that we've lost a lot in the musical and natural part. Not only with exotic Neumanns, Ortofons or EMTs of yester year but take common place mm from SHURE, Stanton, Grado or Technics, they're still setting standards and sound remarkable if one's looking for musical & natural unless one comes from Pearson's school of sound…

          Originally posted by JackD201 View Post
          Before my time really. You were playing with the good stuff while I was using things like Shure 44-7s with generic throw away knock off styli. I have heard other systems where friends use the likes of Ortofon SPUs and FRs, all sounding really good. Now you've made me wonder too.
          Never too late to start Jack! You've got the means and the experience now, give a vintage Shure VR15 (also with throw away stylus!) a shot!

          david
          Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
          Distribution: NEODIO

          Special Sales: van den Hul
          Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

          Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
          http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
          http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

          Comment


          • #6
            The cartridge from yesteryear that I"d most like to hear nowadays is the Monster Cable Alpha 2. It was a great performer in its day but was always handicapped by its low output. What would it sound like in a modern tonearm and hooked up to a modern day phonostage? Maybe even throw in the Rowland Complement or Acoustic Hollograph. Or maybe even the old Kiseki Lapis Lazuli? Or maybe even John Marovski's MIT-1 cartridge?
            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
            ________________________________________

            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
            -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
            -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
            -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
            -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
              The cartridge from yesteryear that I"d most like to hear nowadays is the Monster Cable Alpha 2. It was a great performer in its day but was always handicapped by its low output. What would it sound like in a modern tonearm and hooked up to a modern day phonostage? Maybe even throw in the Rowland Complement or Acoustic Hollograph. Or maybe even the old Kiseki Lapis Lazuli? Or maybe even John Marovski's MIT-1 cartridge?
              I miss the CJ premier 7a from the same era, should have never sold it!

              david
              Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
              Distribution: NEODIO

              Special Sales: van den Hul
              Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

              Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
              http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
              http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by david k View Post

                I miss the CJ premier 7a from the same era, should have never sold it!

                david
                ​That is a rare preamp that some people have never heard about it. You never see them come up for sale on the used market.
                SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mep View Post

                  ​That is a rare preamp that some people have never heard about it. You never see them come up for sale on the used market.
                  Very rare, only the 7b from time to time but they're not the same.
                  david
                  Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
                  Distribution: NEODIO

                  Special Sales: van den Hul
                  Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

                  Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by david k View Post

                    I miss the CJ premier 7a from the same era, should have never sold it!

                    david
                    It was a special preamplifier. IIRC it was their first and one of only two dual mono preamp designs (the other being the ART). I used to hear the 7a regularly at Tom Miiller's who had it paired with the Premier 8s and Avalons.
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                    -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
                    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Circa 1975: a Thorens 125 modded to fit a bolt-on Rabco linear tracker carrying a V-15 type III (MM)...would've been absolute state-of-the-art (run-through, if I remember the model designation correctly?, a Levinson ML-1).

                      Comment

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