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  • Classic Speaker Designs

    What speakers have held the test of time?

    How about Infinity IRS and Betas? Still no substitute for the ability those towers ability to move air in the low end. And despite the faults of the xover, those ribbons were great at resolving the nuances of the music. The achilles heel was the upper midrange though with modification and careful selection of amplifier and enough power, those issues could be dealt with.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
    -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Myles,

    IMHO in order to be considered as having held the test of time a speaker must claim excellent sound quality compared to present references but also that a significant number is units is still being operated currently. And I think that in this case the winners are without question the Quad ESL57 and 63!

    My opinions rely on listening mainly to acoustical, non amplified music. I do not care about electronic music or listening to rock at stadium levels, but I enjoy Mahler and Shostakovitch.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hard to argue with your logic Francisco.
      SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

      Comment


      • #4
        There is something special about Quad ESL 57s. I make a point of visiting a friend often to get my "Quad Fix".

        Dre
        **************************************************
        Every day is a good day to play analog.
        - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
        - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
        **************************************************
        Every day is a good day for live music.
        **************************************************

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dre_J View Post
          There is something special about Quad ESL 57s. I make a point of visiting a friend often to get my "Quad Fix".

          Dre
          No argument from me I'm a ESL 57 lifer and they're also the weirdest looking objects of sound reproduction you'll come across, Myles on the other hand cant stand them,

          IMO, one the very best speakers of the last 40 years that are long extinct were Apogees. I owned Duetta Sigs back in the day and was aiming my sights at Divas until the co. called it quits. I'd sure love to have a mint pair of Divas with the DAX crossover. in my book they're speakers for life..
          Last edited by Rob; 02-14-2016, 10:20 PM.
          Linn Kilmax LP12 | Channel D | Pass Labs | First Watt | Chord | Innuos | Klipsch Cornwall IV

          Comment


          • david k
            david k commented
            Editing a comment
            The Divas were wonderful speakers, had mine for over 10 years but it nearly always came up short because of the lack of suitable amplifiers at the time. Neither the Krell nor Classé was any good sonically, later when I got the Levinson 33s I realized that besides sounding crap they couldn't really drive the Divas either. The DAX wasn't any good, you were much better off with passive beaming using the same amps. But with all that when bi-amped with some decent tube amps it was pure magic with some music….

        • #6
          Originally posted by microstrip View Post
          Myles,

          IMHO in order to be considered as having held the test of time a speaker must claim excellent sound quality compared to present references but also that a significant number is units is still being operated currently. And I think that in this case the winners are without question the Quad ESL57 and 63!
          Hmmm I know a lot of people still using Infinity IRS or Betas. Al here has V IIRC and doensn't Paul McGowan still use Vs or Betas (Paul broke out a new pair of Betas two years ago for Axpona). My friend Sid still uses his RS1bs. So at least in this country, there are a lot of Infinities in usage. But certainly you are correct about the 57 and 63s.

          I also didn't think of it as a exlusive but inclusive meaning there was more than one right answer.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
          -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
          -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Rob View Post

            No argument from me I'm a ESL 57 lifer and they're also the weirdest looking objects of sound reproduction you'll come across, Myles on the other hand cant stand them,

            IMO, one the very best speakers of the last 40 years that are long extinct were Apogees. I owned Duetta Sigs back in the day and was aiming my sights at Divas until the co. called it quits. I'd sure love to have a mint pair of Divas with the DAX crossover. in my book they're speakers for life..
            Still a lot of Apogee owners out there. Getting parts has been an issue until recently, however.
            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
            ________________________________________

            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
            -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
            -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
            -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
            -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

            Comment


            • #8
              What about the LS3/5A?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
              -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
              -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
              -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
              -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

              Comment


              • #9
                Quads, Apogees and 3/5as aren't just classics. They have huge cult followings especially around here in Asia. There's the JBL and Altech cults, more recently the WE cults. I think ARs have a following too.

                What these all have in common if I'm not mistaken, is are periods of discontinuity on the market place. I think that actually helped cement their places. I don't know what would have happened if they went the usual way with incremental updates brought to market continuously over time. In the case of the Quads there's already minor debate over which was better, with the 3/5as, which licensee was better. Would the 801 Matrix 1 have had a spot if there wasn't a II and a III then the N801s that followed, the W/P 1 too for that matter. I don't know.

                I do think that by present standards of top end and midrange clarity and definition the Quads and 3/5as remain more than just competitive today. While not a cult member myself, I certainly see why they are so loved, so much so that I try to shoot for that kind of performance pretty often while simultaneously feeding the lust for sometimes violent dynamics. That has been the biggest challenge to date as far as I am concerned to be honest.

                I also think aging is already an issue with dynamic drivers as replacement parts are dwindling and original parts are beat up over time. What we may be hearing now might no longer be stuff anywhere near their prime. That makes direct comparisons pretty difficult.

                Comment


                • #10
                  On a much more modest level, I think the Large Advent should be considered a classic. After hearing my son's system in the living room of the house he shared in college (Large Advents driven by a Luxman L80v integrated amp of the same vintage), and then hearing the same speakers after we returned them to my brother's house driven by his mid 70s Marantz 2230b receiver (with an older model Pro-Ject turntable), I was reminded that although the old Advents can't match the resolution of modern speakers, they are eminently musical, and more enjoyable to listen to than a lot of small modern speakers. Too bad it's gotten so hard to find proper replacement drivers (especially tweeters) for these speakers.
                  Steve Lefkowicz
                  Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
                  --------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...ounding-system

                  Comment


                  • Rust
                    Rust commented
                    Editing a comment
                    My Uncle had a set of large Advents driven by a Luxman integrated and a Studer R2R. Very engaging sound. I doubt the American market would have grown as it did at the time without the advent of the Advents. A much smaller speaker with good sound that would fit into any virtually any domicile, apartment or dorm room.

                • #11
                  Originally posted by Steve Lefkowicz View Post
                  On a much more modest level, I think the Large Advent should be considered a classic. . . . Too bad it's gotten so hard to find proper replacement drivers (especially tweeters) for these speakers.
                  Steve,
                  I had similar experience playing with Large Advents about 20 years ago. I was shocked at how good they sounded driven by a classic old Scott 299 integrated amp. They sounded even better if one bypassed the Scott's preamp section and just used the EL84 push-pull amplifier. And that was with the stock Advent. I had even better results once I replaced the tweeter with a decent soft dome and slightly tweaked the crossover to get rid of the electrolytic caps and replaced them with polypro caps. I can dig up my notes from that time if anyone is still interested.
                  ---Gary

                  Analog: Scheu + Immedia RPM tonearm + Koetsu Black + Pass Xono or Threshold FET 10pe
                  Amps: First Watt F7, HK Citation II
                  Pre-Amps: CJ Premier 14, Threshold FET 10e, DIY 417a with output transformer
                  Speakers: Horning Eufrodite, Reference 3A mm de capo
                  Tuners: Sansui TU9900, McIntosh MR78
                  Digital: i7 Server (Roon) + SSD, Sonore urendu + Mutec MC3+ USB + Berkeley Alpha Dac, Audiomeca Mephisto
                  Power: Audience AR12, Torus Tot, DIY filters

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    How about the Magico Mini II? Still one of the best sounding and looking small speakers around. I think they will be sought after for years on the used market, especially if less than $10K.
                    SME 30/12A, SME V-12, MySonicLab Signature Gold, Air Tight Supreme, Pass Labs XA160.5, XP-22, XP-27, Magico Q3

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                      What about the LS3/5A?
                      Yes, I've owned my share including "White Belly" Chartwells, the 15 ohn Rogers and early 90s Spendor LS3/5a. I would love to have another set but it seems $2k is the going price for a beat up well worn 40 year old pair.
                      Linn Kilmax LP12 | Channel D | Pass Labs | First Watt | Chord | Innuos | Klipsch Cornwall IV

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by GaryB View Post
                        Steve,
                        I had similar experience playing with Large Advents about 20 years ago. I was shocked at how good they sounded driven by a classic old Scott 299 integrated amp. They sounded even better if one bypassed the Scott's preamp section and just used the EL84 push-pull amplifier. And that was with the stock Advent. I had even better results once I replaced the tweeter with a decent soft dome and slightly tweaked the crossover to get rid of the electrolytic caps and replaced them with polypro caps. I can dig up my notes from that time if anyone is still interested.
                        ---Gary
                        I'd love to know what tweeters you used, what crossover mods you did and how it altered the sound. I've heard a few "modernized" Advents over the years that sounded more hi-fi but overall less musical than the originals.
                        Steve Lefkowicz
                        Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
                        --------------------------------------------------------
                        http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...ounding-system

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          The original Advent speakers needed real American amp muscle as the Japanese receivers of the day simply would shut down when faced with a 4 ohm load.
                          SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

                          Comment

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