Futterman and Bedini with ESLs

[kcin]

A little time on my hands this evening and pairing the classic Futterman and Bedini with the recently refurbished ESLs. Trying to get some hours on the panels as time as of late has not been kind to a lot of listening.

[Rob]

nice.

who rebuilt your 57s? i see the grills are off, hopefully you have no young kids or pets about

[kcin]

Wayne Picquet in Florida, no young children although they sometime act childish and the poodle is well trained and doesn't have access to the locked dedicated room- unless of course it is mid day and he grabs a few cigars and bottle of scotch and heads down there- who would know?

[MylesBAstor]

Just curious given its age. Has the Bedini worked flawlessly since you got it and did you have any work done it? The Bedini must go back to the mid-80s?

[Rob]

the website says '74-'79 but some were made up to the mid '90s. I contacted Bedini's brother a few years ago about the 25/25 I had, he can tell by a pic of the internals from how they're laid out which production run you have.

[Rob]

I heard Gary Katayama's PK 57s and they sounded good, but tonally, different from the NOS pair I owed at the time (i'm on my 4th pair). Have you compared the sound of stock 57s to Wayne's 'vision' of the perfect 57?

[kcin]

Just curious given its age. Has the Bedini worked flawlessly since you got it and did you have any work done it? The Bedini must go back to the mid-80s?

No, I reworked this one this past year . The heat plays havoc with this design. Works great now. This one is early 80's vintage. Had to change the differential pair ,VBE multiplier and drivers in one channel that kept losing bias. It is one sweet sounding amp. Otherwise in excellent condition.

Somewhat of a tragedy Gary Bedini and John Bedini passed away earlier this year within a day each other's passing . Another great designer from the past is gone.

[kcin]

I heard Gary Katayama's PK 57s and they sounded good, but tonally, different from the NOS pair I owed at the time (i'm on my 4th pair). Have you compared the sound of stock 57s to Wayne's 'vision' of the perfect 57?

I agree they sound different but also that any panel that is NOS in 2016 probably couldn't be correct. I have new inbox original panels from the Uk that I have tacked in to various ESLs for shoot outs . I've owned multiple pairs over the years. Wayne's latest work is the best yet.

http://www.quadesl.org/index.php/r-d/pk-panels

[Rob]

i had every owner's wet dream come true a NOS pair with factory cartons still wrapped in plastic ser numbers in the 50,000 range which put production in the mid 80s when manufacturing ceased. Ron Schultz EE (self proclaimed 57 expert/fanatic) confirmed they were the best sounding and most pristine set he's ever heard or measured. they remained my reference ESL 57 for years until he acquired them from me.

[kcin]

Cool, my pair just modified is in the late 49,000 range so very close to the ones you had.

[Bill Hart]

One issue I will have to wrestle with is whether to restore my vintage Quad II amps to use with my not yet restored Quad 57s. Yes, high funk factor--what to use for preamp? But the other issue is whether the cost of restoring the amps is worth the investment. (I can always keep them as static display pieces). Then, what to use, without spending stupid money- since this would be a secondary system- not big system hi-fi, but used for semi-serious listening in the house when not using a digitally based convenience system for background music or while cooking or doing household stuff. (I guess you could call it system III - not the "main system" and not the lowest system on the rung, but somewhere in the middle).
I also have an old ARC Dual 75a that I did use with the Quads back in the day--the preamp equation on that is easier. kcin - my biggest concern with a cigar chomping, scotch drinking poodle is driving--they seem to get distracted once behind the wheel. Smart dogs, though.

[kcin]

One issue I will have to wrestle with is whether to restore my vintage Quad II amps to use with my not yet restored Quad 57s. Yes, high funk factor--what to use for preamp? But the other issue is whether the cost of restoring the amps is worth the investment. (I can always keep them as static display pieces). Then, what to use, without spending stupid money- since this would be a secondary system- not big system hi-fi, but used for semi-serious listening in the house when not using a digitally based convenience system for background music or while cooking or doing household stuff. (I guess you could call it system III - not the "main system" and not the lowest system on the rung, but somewhere in the middle).
I also have an old ARC Dual 75a that I did use with the Quads back in the day--the preamp equation on that is easier. kcin - my biggest concern with a cigar chomping, scotch drinking poodle is driving--they seem to get distracted once behind the wheel. Smart dogs, though.

Hi Bill,

IMO if you have the $ and actually will use the speakers, get them refurbished. I am on my third set of refurbed ESLs- I had to sell the other two to some folks locally as they continually pestered me for them. Each one was a tear down and rebuild of the frame & electronics by me- the panels were sent to PK in Florida- I have no patience for panel rebuilds as I tried it and it was eventually successful - I just couldn't justify the time. Keep in mind that sitting down in a sweet spot is the only way to really listen to a pair of ESLs but if you want a period correct system I get what you are trying to accomplish.

There is a reason they are still used as a reference today and if you listen nearfield they can still be quite an experience.

On the Quad IIs , what a wonder of Industrial art; they are jewel like . A little round in their presentation but can be made to sound very nice with some parts upgrades and more convenient with binding posts and RCA inputs ( I have built Jones to RCA adapters for this as well) .

If you have a D75 I would venture to say that it would sound very good on the ESLs. If it is operating well hook it up and try. You can use any preamp that suits you. In fact, I wouldn't recommend the QUAD QCII pre mating with the QUAD IIs it has not stood the test of time like the amps have.

I took my pair of QUAD IIs that were a little cosmetically challenged and installed binding posts and RCA inputs and upgraded the innards. In that exercise I chromed the chassis and shot the cans with industrial hammerite paint for a different look. I like working on these - heck I'd do it for you if you were close they are a breeze to redo.

Depending on your use of the system, if the panels aren't leaking electrically, and the amp is safe and holds bias well then just hook up what you have and enjoy it.

On the poodle thing, I was tricked by my wife and daughter- they were supposed to just go to the breeders to "look".

[Bill Hart]

Hi Bill,

IMO if you have the $ and actually will use the speakers, get them refurbished. I am on my third set of refurbed ESLs- I had to sell the other two to some folks locally as they continually pestered me for them. Each one was a tear down and rebuild of the frame & electronics by me- the panels were sent to PK in Florida- I have no patience for panel rebuilds as I tried it and it was eventually successful - I just couldn't justify the time. Keep in mind that sitting down in a sweet spot is the only way to really listen to a pair of ESLs but if you want a period correct system I get what you are trying to accomplish.

There is a reason they are still used as a reference today and if you listen nearfield they can still be quite an experience.

On the Quad IIs , what a wonder of Industrial art; they are jewel like . A little round in their presentation but can be made to sound very nice with some parts upgrades and more convenient with binding posts and RCA inputs ( I have built Jones to RCA adapters for this as well) .

If you have a D75 I would venture to say that it would sound very good on the ESLs. If it is operating well hook it up and try. You can use any preamp that suits you. In fact, I wouldn't recommend the QUAD QCII pre mating with the QUAD IIs it has not stood the test of time like the amps have.

I took my pair of QUAD IIs that were a little cosmetically challenged and installed binding posts and RCA inputs and upgraded the innards. In that exercise I chromed the chassis and shot the cans with industrial hammerite paint for a different look. I like working on these - heck I'd do it for you if you were close they are a breeze to redo.

Depending on your use of the system, if the panels aren't leaking electrically, and the amp is safe and holds bias well then just hook up what you have and enjoy it.

On the poodle thing, I was tricked by my wife and daughter- they were supposed to just go to the breeders to "look".

KC- no question I will be back into a pair of '57s- have Crosby '63s as well and the '57, to my ears, was more coherent in the mids- they remain my reference (though it is a long time since my '57s have been fired up). I wouldn't trust my '57s at this point without a full resto--
The real question is whether it is worth the candle to restore the Quad II amps-- I don't trust those either- they were fired up last back in the mid-'90s. Cost vs. sound quality of something else.
The Dual 75a was what I used for my '57s when they were my main system speaker- not the last word in tube transparency, but I've owned the amp since new, and will keep it, whether or not I use it to run the Quads.
Thanks for your input on this. It isn't high priority, but I'm thinking if the speakers have to get packed and moved anyway (and will go into paid storage), I might as well get those restored. Then, there's always the possibility of another pair- I've never had a double Quad set up- figure that's a bucket list item, right?