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Speaker Cable for Old Quad Loudspeaker (aka 57)

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  • Speaker Cable for Old Quad Loudspeaker (aka 57)

    I swore I wasn't going down the rabbit hole, but.....

    Now that this smaller vintage system is up and running I want to get it optimized--

    I know that Rob and kcin both run old Quads and am curious if you experimented. (Others welcome to chime in, particularly if you've run the original ESL with the Quad II amp).

    Back in the day when mine were still in production we used zip cord on the old Quad ; when I had the Crosby Quads, I used various stuff, including that OCOS cable which was a coax of sorts.

    Right now, running plain old stranded 12 gauge copper cable that I bought in bulk- I need to terminate with bananas, both for the speaker and the Quad II amps, but given the vintage of the equipment, I'd really like to avoid high end "audiophile" cable, particularly of the fire hose style. I read Roger Sander's white paper on the ideal cable for electrostats generally, and am mindful of Peter Walker's strictures on the subject.* Talk to me. Any experience with Mogami W3082 with these things?
    (Given the nature of the room, I'm very reluctant to run long interconnect short speaker cable, as I do on the big system, so we're looking at 25 ft runs).

    It's fun bouncing back and forth between the two systems- the horns and the Quads. Right now listening to Rickie lee Jones The Magazine- an old copy I had on Quiex cut by TML. Pretty nice record.
    PS: Side two of The Magazine started to sound very bright- maybe a reason why I hadn't listened to this album in a long time. Loved her early stuff, but Pirates was sooo nasty sounding. I'm now on a Japanese psych binge-- found a first pressing of Flower Travelin' Band- Satori. It's a wonderfully weird record (and so far a good sounding one).

    ________
    * Two critical things, said Walker- is the lead long enough to reach from the amp to speaker? And does it conduct electricity?

  • #2
    You might try the new production wire, tinned wire with a natural oil impregnated cotton jacket from that company that makes the rather expensive and large copper or silver foil caps. The name escapes me at the moment. I believe it is a company based in the UK.

    Comment


    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      Duelund? they're in Denmark.

  • #3
    Bill, I'm using Canare 4s11 pretty much everywhere (FWIW, Magico uses 4s11 to internally wire their Q series on down). I'm agnostic about wire brand, I look for certain electrical characteristics and good materials/construction. 57s don't put special demands on cables, YMMV
    Last edited by Rob; 07-29-2017, 11:12 AM.

    Comment


    • #4
      Originally posted by Rob View Post
      Bill, I'm using Canare 4s11 pretty much everywhere (FWII, Magico uses 4s11 to internally wire their Q series on down). I'm agnostic about wire brand, I look for certain electrical characteristics and good materials/construction. 57s don't put special demands on cables, YMMV
      Yes, good stuff.

      Comment


      • #5
        Bill,

        Good news and bad news. The good news is you can apply PW proclamation that any wire long enough will do. You won't go much wrong. However, the 57's do respond to different wires differently.

        At 25ft runs, you will be into great expense to try.My favourite that I use is the Nordost Valhalla, after that I like the Auditorium 23 cables and some alpha core sliver ribbon cables.

        I've used MIT , Cardas, Furutech, Mogami, and Kimber.

        You may want to check out the Auditorium 23 cables, I believe Dudley uses them in his system and he ties in the 57s from time to time. They are well constructed, not crazy dollars and adhere to some good principles. I've spent a lot of time with them and they do work well. Many other cables I've used really suck out the presence region on these speakers and this cable does not.

        Otherwise experiment. If you are like most of us you have a box full of the stuff.

        Good luck
        Phono: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
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        Amps: Custom Direct Drive, Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2. Bedini 25/25
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        Speakers: Beveridge Model 3 Direct Drive amps, REL S/2 x 2, Quad ESL pair
        Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

        Comment


        • cmaronmurphy
          cmaronmurphy commented
          Editing a comment
          Very much agree on the A23. Used it to drive my Quads from my EAR power amplifier

      • #6
        Hi Bill

        My favorite "skinny" cable is the Au24 SX by Audience. Did I read this right? You need 25 ft runs?

        Comment


        • #7
          Radio Shack's Mega Cable! I'm not saying it's the best out there but it's one of the better ones irrespective of price. Very musical with excellent tone and timbre, been using them for years and replaced many highly touted high end cables in my customer's systems and for less than $30 for a 50ft roll can't be beat. Long runs aren't a problem either my speaker wire runs average 6 meters.

          https://www.radioshack.com/products/...egacable-50-ft

          david
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          • #8
            Thanks, Gents. Helpful to give me a range to consider, particularly the Canare rather Mogami, the Auditorium, etc, all stuff I've never used. Jack, yes, 25 ft. runs. Mainly for safety of the glass in the Quad IIs. I suppose I could come up with small amp stands to locate them near the speaker if necessary and do short runs. Don't know how the Quad ii amps would react to a long interconnect run from the preamp (an old tube McI). It's been decades since some of this gear was in use ( all freshly restored and retubed, of course).

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by david k View Post
              Radio Shack's Mega Cable! I'm not saying it's the best out there but it's one of the better ones irrespective of price. Very musical with excellent tone and timbre, been using them for years and replaced many highly touted high end cables in my customer's systems and for less than $30 for a 50ft roll can't be beat. Long runs aren't a problem either my speaker wire runs average 6 meters.

              https://www.radioshack.com/products/...egacable-50-ft

              david
              David: you posted while I was replying. Is RatShack still in business? Is it solid core or stranded? (Couldn't really tell from the picture).

              Comment


              • david k
                david k commented
                Editing a comment
                But the stores usually have them and they come back in stock too.

                david

              • Bill Hart
                Bill Hart commented
                Editing a comment
                thanks, both.

              • JCOConnell
                JCOConnell commented
                Editing a comment
                I have the original rat shack megacables which were heavier gauge flat braid 100 percent copper

            • #10
              Buy yourself a couple runs of stranded Western Electric 16ga tinned copper wire from eBay if you can find it or the new replica Western Electric 16ga tinned wire from Dueland and never look back...I replaced 12,000 Transparent speaker cables with this and I am very very happy.....
              Primary 2 channel stuff: Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass Labs X600.5 amps, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, Dunlavy SC4s, VPI HRX Reference w Avenger mag drive and Reference footers, Gimbal Fatboy, Yamaha GT2000 for Mono, Miyajima Kansui, Miyajima ZERO, Fidelity Research MC-201 & 202, VPI ADS, Vendetta Research SCP-1, Audio Note UK- 3.1X II balanced DAC, Meridian Sooloos, Western Electric Speaker wire, mostly diy balanced interconnects, Furutech Power Cords

              Comment


              • Bill Hart
                Bill Hart commented
                Editing a comment
                I have a pile of something like- it is cloth covered copper stranded. It isn't Dueland. Bought from a vintage motorcycle parts place for restoration of old bikes. Tres cheap. I was going to use it for some grounding experiments on the main system, but I can certainly give it a go, though it may not be the same as the "audiophile approved" stuff.

            • #11
              FWIW, I finally bought the Quad book by Kessler-- something I had just relegated to the back burner for years, but now is obviously more compelling. The U.S. market price seems to be in the neighborhood of 150 US and up. Found it new at a UK dealer with shipping to Austin, $85.

              Comment


              • #12
                Thanks, all. I ordered some Canare. I will look for the Radio Shack stuff David mentioned as well. I don't know if it worth trying the mock WE stuff I have. Since both ends want to see a banana plug, I have some Cardas bananas around-- back in the day, I remember stuffing bare wire ends into the speaker. I guess that was best, but I was too lazy to desolder the old Quad plugs-- still probably have them somewhere, though Kent McCollum upgraded the speaker terminations and the power cord connector when he refurbished the speakers. Will keep you posted. Now let's see what the mailman brought!

                Comment


                • Rob
                  Rob commented
                  Editing a comment
                  4s11 is four conductor wire as you might have gathered, if you tie them in pairs the aggregate is equal to 11 awg. individuality it's 14 awg, handy if you ever want to repurpose them for bi-wiring. I like and use Z-Bananas (Nordost and many other cos. use them), if the ID of the receiving jack is slightly oversized its very easy to expand this plug for snug contact.

                • Bill Hart
                  Bill Hart commented
                  Editing a comment
                  thanks Rob. Never even saw one of those- minimalist.

              • #13
                This is what you want if long enough or equivalent (Western Electric 16 ga tinned copper stranded wire). You will be shocked I promise

                I got these for my Quad 57 Classic System and now I have them everywhere...We moved and I had to sell my Quads but I kept the wire

                http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-9-Western-...4AAOSww9xZC4cB

                Strip the ends and use the bare wire at the speaker and amp
                Primary 2 channel stuff: Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass Labs X600.5 amps, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, Dunlavy SC4s, VPI HRX Reference w Avenger mag drive and Reference footers, Gimbal Fatboy, Yamaha GT2000 for Mono, Miyajima Kansui, Miyajima ZERO, Fidelity Research MC-201 & 202, VPI ADS, Vendetta Research SCP-1, Audio Note UK- 3.1X II balanced DAC, Meridian Sooloos, Western Electric Speaker wire, mostly diy balanced interconnects, Furutech Power Cords

                Comment


                • #14
                  The Canare 4s11 is a quad-star so it reduces fields from the cable itself much more than a simple double wire twisted.

                  The Radioshack wire is too small IMO. And you have to twist it yourself, what a pain!

                  What I'd like to see is a quad-star cable that's made up of 12ga wires. This could work from VH Audio, but damn is it ever stiff... I mean the 2x12ga version of it is a beast to wrestle around with all by itself....
                  VH Audio - Audio cables, parts, tweaks and accessories for audiophiles. We offer convenient online ordering, fast worldwide shipping, and one of the largest IN-STOCK selections of audiophile parts and wiring on the internet

                  Comment


                  • david k
                    david k commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Nothing to twist, just cut strip & connect. Try it Folsom it's much better than many think. Thinking the same bought plenty of similar 10 & 12 gauge copper wires that sounded harsh and constrained, there's more to it than the gauge.

                    david

                  • Folsom
                    Folsom commented
                    Editing a comment
                    David, I believe I would need your stereo or one similar to get the benefits. The RCA's from Radioshack you like did exactly that for me, extremely harsh and constrained. To me it seems like people either do or do not have the same experience you get from wires and some things. Why I don't know exactly. There's a lot of variables!

                    If someone is unhappy with what they're using, it certainly could be worth their time to try your preferences in cables. I just know so far they have not been to my personal benefit.

                  • david k
                    david k commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It's not just me, my customers and friends get the same results too. I can't comment without having been to your place and knowing what you have and you're looking for but in case of Bill with his Lamm and Quads I know his tastes so I don't hesitate to make recommendations.

                    I also use very neutral power cords so everything is in balance when I start with the setup a brighter thinner cord might initially sound more lively but could sound thin with more neutral cables that don't add body or warmth, it's a choice. That could be the reason for the difference we hear from the other things that you mention. As far as RS speakers cables go they're not the most extended at the top or bottom but are very correct and musical what his vintage quads need. Sure different wires will give him some differences but to really better the RS speaker wires one needs to spend a lot more money to seriously better them.

                    You only tried one pair of very cheap IC that you don't like in your system, which is fair enough but that's not my only preference in cables, there some very expensive ones that I have which are better but that's not what we're looking for here. You can hear the RS interconnects if you come for the other thing.

                    david

                • #15
                  Originally posted by Rust View Post
                  You might try the new production wire, tinned wire with a natural oil impregnated cotton jacket from that company that makes the rather expensive and large copper or silver foil caps. The name escapes me at the moment. I believe it is a company based in the UK.
                  What cab I say, wasn't more than a few hundred miles off...

                  Comment

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