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  • DSD in the The Voice That Is Room

    At this weekend's Capital Audiofest you will find Doug White from The Voice That Is playing Stereo DSD 64fs and DSD 128fs selections from the Native DSD Music store on a setup that includes the Bricasti DAC.

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  • #2
    Gals your playing dsd only. While there is great pcm there is far more great dsd.
    Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
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    mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
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    network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #3
      Are those new speakers that look like palm trees? I bet they have a great WAF.
      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

      Comment


      • #4
        Doug always has a great sounding room.

        Comment


        • #5
          File this under what the new digital paradox. At least in my mind.

          I spent quite a bit of time in Doug's room listening to his system that ranked among the best sounds of the show. Doug's setup was replete with analog (Brinkmann table/arm/modded EMT cartridge) and digital (Aurender server and Bricasti DAC)-all top notch and respected pieces-front ends in his room. My comments, however, will be restricted to the digital end.

          On Sunday, I spent an hour with Doug listening to his digital front end using both single and double DSD files. First up, were 1X DSD files from Cookie Morenco and Blue Coast Records immediately followed by 2X DSD files downloaded from Native DSD. And the results were--though maybe shouldn't have been in hindsight--somewhat surprising and fascinating to me.

          First up were four cuts from different albums from Cookie. As everyone knows, Cookie is a fanatic about the sound of her recordings and leaves nothing to chance. And the sound was good, though a bit dry and flat sounding. Mind you, these were simple recordings of voice with either guitar, piano or trumpet. I just kept listeningbtomthe acoustic guitar and feeling much was missing.

          Next up: the double DSD files. With essentially identical results until Doug put on Jonathan Horwich's HDTT double DSD files featuring Dee Alexander and Brienn Perry. Holy shit! You didn't need a meta-analysis to hear the difference! Now we were cooking with gas! Now there was the emotional engagement missing from the earlier digital recordings. The sense of richness and harmonic content MIA from the previous files. A real body singing and playing in the room. More than that a real person rather than a stripped down shell. The session finished off with a Bill Evans reissue from Resonance Records retaining the sound established by Jonathan's recordings.

          So what gives? All the recordings were of audiophile quality yet they couldn't have sounded more different. The one difference that sticks out like a sore thumb? Both Jonathan's and the Bill Evans were taken from analog tape while the other recordings were recorded in the digital domain. (Old timers may remember how in the early days of digital, the best--and often times the only CDs that were listenable-were sourced from analog tape. ) So here's the paradox? Why can DSD do a great job at retaining the quality of analog tapes--especially when we are talking about that ever so elusive emotional connection--yet fail so miserably when doing a new digital recording?

          Oh, and if you don't own a tape machine, do the next best thing and get these two DSD recordings from Jonathan and IPI! (Actually nativedsd!) I don't even think Jonathan has released the Brien Perry on tape. At least it isn't on his website. Phenomenal recording!
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
          -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd like to weigh in if I might. The Brienn Perry is available ordered directly from me for the usual price. Now to Doug's room. I listened to Doug's room for about 1.5 hours and in my opinion it was as good as anything I have ever heard, probably better. Most new speakers are super transparent and detailed but lose the body and musicality of real live sound. This system did not do that and in my opinion was utterly transporting. The speakers and electronics were stunning. Just giving my listening experience and it should be noted I didn't hear my own tapes there but various jazz performances on vinyl I'm familiar with.
            Last edited by jonathanhorwich; 07-11-2016, 05:05 PM.
            JLH

            Comment


            • #7
              When are you doing your next set of Direct Masters?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
              -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
              -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
              -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jonathanhorwich View Post
                I'd like to weigh in if I might. The Brienn Perry is available ordered directly from me for the usual price. Now to Doug's room. I listened to Doug's room for about 1.5 hours and in my opinion it was as good as anything I have ever heard, probably better. Most new speakers are super transparent and detailed but lose the body and musicality of real live sound. This system did not do that and in my opinion was utterly transporting. The speakers and electronics were stunning. Just giving my listening experience and I didn't hear my own tapes there but various jazz performances on vinyl I'm familiar with.
                Jonathan, you can record in analog or DSD. Yet you continue to be a dinosaur! Why is that?
                Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                ________________________________________

                -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Myles, can you inform to which dsd 128 files from Native dsd you listened to? And you listened through the Briscasti dac only? I am not familiar with the latter but I believe Doug was playing on one of his last shows with the Lampizator Golden Gate dac, a dac I know very well.

                  And my final question: wetre you ale to listen to some dsd 256 or dxd recordings?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                    Jonathan, you can record in analog or DSD. Yet you continue to be a dinosaur! Why is that?
                    He's a dinosaur because he listens to jazz on vinyl? I don't get it.
                    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

                      He's a dinosaur because he listens to jazz on vinyl? I don't get it.
                      No Jonathan is a dinosaur because he records on tape.
                      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                      ________________________________________

                      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                      -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                      -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                      -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Audiocrack View Post
                        Myles, can you inform to which dsd 128 files from Native dsd you listened to? And you listened through the Briscasti dac only? I am not familiar with the latter but I believe Doug was playing on one of his last shows with the Lampizator Golden Gate dac, a dac I know very well.

                        And my final question: wetre you ale to listen to some dsd 256 or dxd recordings?
                        Blue Coast 1X DSD (?): (all four artists were in the Tidal room at this year's Newport Show)

                        Jenna Mammina: Wicked Game
                        Valerie Joyce: Tenderly
                        Meghan Andrews: Venus Rising
                        Jenny Maybe: 99

                        Now I am not sure about provenance; some are 2X-->analog console-->2X DSD, others are 2X-->analog console--2X and yet others might be 1X-->analog console-->2X DSD. This is what Cookie thinks sounds best.

                        The 2X DSD was:

                        India Brasileira (sp?) Razes
                        Eight Ensemble Quintet Para Instruments de Sopro from Just Listen

                        Dee Alexander: Ain't Misbehavin'
                        Brien Perry: In a Mellow Tone

                        No was only on the Bricasti that I know some including Ken here think highly of. And no, didn't have any 4X DSD. I'm not sure if the Bricasti does quad but Ken might know for sure.
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                        -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                        -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                        Comment


                        • lasercd
                          lasercd commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Myles I'm pretty sure the Bricasti M1 maxes out at DSD128. I can check with Brian if you like.

                      • #13
                        Quick DSD-related story... I was at a fellow member's place the other day (Andy), while he was evaluating a speaker I brought. He was in the main seat, and I was further back. The session was pretty much underway, so I wasn't paying that much attention to the sound, as his system was sounding pretty good overall.

                        At some point, he played a Cat Stevens song which I knew. I could see/hear that it was from LP, from the clicks/pops. It sounded fine, nothing outstanding or far from the norm. Then he went to the next song, which was actually the same song. But, from where I was sitting (not in the sweet spot), it seemed like a whole different performance! Just better flow, more natural, non-hazy, more detail, more everything! I couldn't help but murmur a puzzled "WTF?"... Andy then tells me the two songs are taken from the very same LP, one done in DSD and one in hi-res PCM (24/96 I assume). He asks me which one I think is the DSD, and I guess correctly... The 2nd, MUCH better one!

                        Sure, I understand what we heard could've been a factor of a) the ADC used (PS Audio's) or b) DAC used (EMM Labs). But still, the PCM/DSD gap was as wide as I've ever heard.

                        I've always done my LP rips in 2xDSD, as I found out not even 24/192 could touch it. But what I heard there was revelatory. Proper tape transfers done to DSD/2xDSD are where it's at. The key is getting those transfers done properly...


                        cheers,
                        alex
                        Disclosure:
                        Alma Music and Audio - La Jolla, CA
                        Aqua Hi-Fi - Audio Research - Audioquest - Audionet - Audiopax - Auralic - Aurender - Bergmann - Brodmann - D'Agostino - darTZeel - Devialet - DEQX - ELAC - Evolution Acoustics - Hegel - iFi - Innuos - IsoTek - Kii Audio - Koetsu - Kronos - Kubala Sosna - Kuzma - Larsen - Linn - MSB Technology - Music Hall - Ortofon - Solid Steel - Technics - Wharfedale - Wilson Audio - YG Acoustics
                        [ http://almaaudio.com ]

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Thank God for dinosaurs! They've given me my love for music and great sound back.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                            File this under what the new digital paradox. At least in my mind.

                            I spent quite a bit of time in Doug's room listening to his system that ranked among the best sounds of the show. Doug's setup was replete with analog (Brinkmann table/arm/modded EMT cartridge) and digital (Aurender server and Bricasti DAC)-all top notch and respected pieces-front ends in his room. My comments, however, will be restricted to the digital end.

                            On Sunday, I spent an hour with Doug listening to his digital front end using both single and double DSD files. First up, were 1X DSD files from Cookie Morenco and Blue Coast Records immediately followed by 2X DSD files downloaded from Native DSD. And the results were--though maybe shouldn't have been in hindsight--somewhat surprising and fascinating to me.

                            First up were four cuts from different albums from Cookie. As everyone knows, Cookie is a fanatic about the sound of her recordings and leaves nothing to chance. And the sound was good, though a bit dry and flat sounding. Mind you, these were simple recordings of voice with either guitar, piano or trumpet. I just kept listeningbtomthe acoustic guitar and feeling much was missing.

                            Next up: the double DSD files. With essentially identical results until Doug put on Jonathan Horwich's HDTT double DSD files featuring Dee Alexander and Brienn Perry. Holy shit! You didn't need a meta-analysis to hear the difference! Now we were cooking with gas! Now there was the emotional engagement missing from the earlier digital recordings. The sense of richness and harmonic content MIA from the previous files. A real body singing and playing in the room. More than that a real person rather than a stripped down shell. The session finished off with a Bill Evans reissue from Resonance Records retaining the sound established by Jonathan's recordings.

                            So what gives? All the recordings were of audiophile quality yet they couldn't have sounded more different. The one difference that sticks out like a sore thumb? Both Jonathan's and the Bill Evans were taken from analog tape while the other recordings were recorded in the digital domain. (Old timers may remember how in the early days of digital, the best--and often times the only CDs that were listenable-were sourced from analog tape. ) So here's the paradox? Why can DSD do a great job at retaining the quality of analog tapes--especially when we are talking about that ever so elusive emotional connection--yet fail so miserably when doing a new digital recording?

                            Oh, and if you don't own a tape machine, do the next best thing and get these two DSD recordings from Jonathan and IPI! (Actually nativedsd!) I don't even think Jonathan has released the Brien Perry on tape. At least it isn't on his website. Phenomenal recording!
                            If you look at digital as a mathematically resequenced clone of the original with an analog master you have a living donor, the digital master is already a cadaver so you end up with a zombie !

                            david
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