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  • #1

    Best sound at the Munich 2016 High-End show?

    For the second time since I'm visiting Munich High-End shows, there is no question for me which system was sounding the best. It was the Living Voice Vox Palladian/Kondo/Neodio system. FYI, I don't like horn speakers at all, so it was also kind of a shock for me. This was one of the most realistic sounding systems I have heard in my life. It joins a very small group with the MBL Extreme (not on this year's show) and Avalon Isis. The "trick" of this presentation in order to hear this realism was to sit in the last two rows. In every other position this system sounded mediocre or good at best. In comparison all other systems sounded like Hi-Fi one way or the other...I expected much more from Zelaton, Cessaro, Magico and Goebel rooms.

    PS/No turntable or R2R in this room, only CDP (Neodio Origine)... Click image for larger version Name: P1000618.jpg Views: 448 Size: 45.0 KB ID: 14884
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    Last edited by Marcus; 05-14-2016, 08:36 AM.
    Source: Kuzma XL DC/Safir 9/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Signature; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Misho Myronov Wooden Pre; Power amp: Lamm 1.2 Reference; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli, Avalon Isis; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Power filter: P.I Audo: BUSS Depot; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);
    Tags: None
    • #2
      Originally posted by Marcus
      For the second time since I'm visiting Munich High-End shows, there is no question for me which system was sounding the best. It was the Living Voice Vox Palladian/Kondo/Neodio system. FYI, I don't like horn speakers at all, so it was also kind of a shock for me. This was one of the most realistic sounding systems I have heard in my life. It joins a very small group with the MBL Extreme (not on this year's show) and Avalon Isis. The "trick" of this presentation in order to hear this realism was to sit in the last two rows. In every other position this system sounded mediocre or good at best. In comparison all other systems sounded like Hi-Fi one way or the other...I expected much more from Zelaton, Cessaro, Magico and Goebel rooms.

      PS/No turntable or R2R in this room, only CDP (Neodio Origine)... [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14884[/ATTACH]
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14885[/ATTACH]
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14886[/ATTACH]
      Hello Marcus, many thanks for feedback. Very interesting to read your comments especially the comparison with Avalon Isis and the Zellaton. May I ask if you heard the Zellaton with Vinyl or CD? Also, what amps have you heard the Isis with that have impressed you much? They are on my list along with the new Saga due out any day. Avalon speakers seem to get very little coverage at shows and also very few reviews....only 1 review of Isis ever!! Finally, did you get to the Vertere room by any chance?

        Comment

        • #3
          Marcus, did you make it through the other venue in Munich, Hi Fi Deluxe?

            Comment

            • #4
              Originally posted by Marcus
              For the second time since I'm visiting Munich High-End shows, there is no question for me which system was sounding the best. It was the Living Voice Vox Palladian/Kondo/Neodio system. FYI, I don't like horn speakers at all, so it was also kind of a shock for me. This was one of the most realistic sounding systems I have heard in my life. It joins a very small group with the MBL Extreme (not on this year's show) and Avalon Isis. The "trick" of this presentation in order to hear this realism was to sit in the last two rows. In every other position this system sounded mediocre or good at best. In comparison all other systems sounded like Hi-Fi one way or the other...I expected much more from Zelaton, Cessaro, Magico and Goebel rooms.

              PS/No turntable or R2R in this room, only CDP (Neodio Origine)... [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14884[/ATTACH]
              [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14885[/ATTACH]
              [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14886[/ATTACH]
              Funny you mention the Neodio. Vladamir used Neodio in the LAMM/Wilson room a couple of years ago at CES and thought it sounded much better than the turntable. Had a long talk with the designer at that time; the one drawback back then was the Neodio would would only playback RBCD because the designer didn't believe in high-rez digital. I think he's changed his stance a little since then. I tried getting the piece for review but they didn't and still don't AFAIK have a US distributor. Nor do they seem according to their website to have huge worldwide distribution either. And the Neodio ain't cheap. But one of the best digital gear I've heard to date.
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
              -Goldmund Telos 440 and 1000 Nextgen mono amps
              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
              -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, vdh Colibri Master Signature, Mutech Hayabusa,
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna, Audience FrontRow; Audience FrontRow, Genesis Advanced Technologies , Goldmund and Ensemble Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.3+ platforms.

                Comment

                • #5
                  Originally posted by MylesBAstor

                  Funny you mention the Neodio. Vladamir used Neodio in the LAMM/Wilson room a couple of years ago at CES and thought it sounded much better than the turntable. Had a long talk with the designer at that time; the one drawback back then was the Neodio would would only playback RBCD because the designer didn't believe in high-rez digital. I think he's changed his stance a little since then. I tried getting the piece for review but they didn't and still don't AFAIK have a US distributor. Nor do they seem according to their website to have huge worldwide distribution either. And the Neodio ain't cheap. But one of the best digital gear I've heard to date.
                  According to The Audio Beat an updated version of the Neodio (Origine S2) was launched at Munich with an improved clock, new bottom plate and more substantial vibration reduction feet. Myles, would it be possible for you to expand on your impressions of it?

                    Comment

                    • #6
                      Originally posted by ashandger

                      According to The Audio Beat an updated version of the Neodio (Origine S2) was launched at Munich with an improved clock, new bottom plate and more substantial vibration reduction feet. Myles, would it be possible for you to expand on your impressions of it?
                      Based on what you said, my comments might be on an out of date version. What I will say it was the most analog sounding DAC I had heard up to then. It didn't have the thinness, brightness and washed out sound I commonly associate with digital playback. The one CD that stuck out in my mind was the Fairfield Four album Standing in the Safety Zone. Here each of the voices had a real sense of body, delineation and separation of the singers and tonal differentiation of the different voices. Not to mention, a sense of space around the voices that most RBCD playback at least back then seemed to miss. It was just very easy on the ears.
                      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                      ________________________________________

                      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                      -Goldmund Telos 440 and 1000 Nextgen mono amps
                      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, vdh Colibri Master Signature, Mutech Hayabusa,
                      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                      -Assorted cables including Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna, Audience FrontRow; Audience FrontRow, Genesis Advanced Technologies , Goldmund and Ensemble Power Cords
                      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.3+ platforms.

                        Comment

                        • ashandger
                          #6.1
                          ashandger commented
                          05-14-2016, 07:36 PM
                          Editing a comment
                          Great, many thanks for the feedback. That Fairfield Four is one of my fav albums musically and for testing. Great to know that it sounded wonderful through the Neodio.
                          • MylesBAstor
                            #6.2
                            MylesBAstor commented
                            05-14-2016, 08:30 PM
                            Editing a comment
                            Great, great album. Played it for Mark a couple of RMAF's ago and know he was impressed too! Them old guys still have chops!
                          • #7
                            After seeing pictures coming back from Munich I have determined this is THE audio show to attend. Munich 2017 here I come.
                            Marty
                              👍 2

                              Comment

                              • allenh
                                #7.1
                                allenh commented
                                05-14-2016, 07:26 PM
                                Editing a comment
                                Totally agree. On my bucket list!
                              • #8
                                Originally posted by ashandger

                                Hello Marcus, many thanks for feedback. Very interesting to read your comments especially the comparison with Avalon Isis and the Zellaton. May I ask if you heard the Zellaton with Vinyl or CD? Also, what amps have you heard the Isis with that have impressed you much? They are on my list along with the new Saga due out any day. Avalon speakers seem to get very little coverage at shows and also very few reviews....only 1 review of Isis ever!! Finally, did you get to the Vertere room by any chance?
                                Yes I heard Zellaton with the CD and Vinyl and the sound was better with the latter. Still, this is Zellaton's attack on the state-of-the-art and they should at least show some promise like Martin Logan Neolith and Cesaro did for instance.
                                Click image for larger version Name: P1000612.jpg Views: 722 Size: 53.0 KB ID: 15062
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                                Ah, the Isis...Heard them with the Spectral and Karan amplification. I slightly prefer Karan. I'm also waiting for the Saga but AFAIK they are still in the development stage, so we will not see this model in 2016 I think.

                                Regarding Vertere, I can't say anything as it seems I missed that room...

                                Last edited by Marcus; 05-15-2016, 11:19 AM.
                                Source: Kuzma XL DC/Safir 9/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Signature; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Misho Myronov Wooden Pre; Power amp: Lamm 1.2 Reference; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli, Avalon Isis; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Power filter: P.I Audo: BUSS Depot; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                                  Comment

                                  • #9
                                    Originally posted by Rob
                                    Marcus, did you make it through the other venue in Munich, Hi Fi Deluxe?
                                    I did and was disappointed. Nothing to write home about.

                                    But my main disappointment was the JMf room (the sound of the system sucked btw), where I tried to get more info about their PCD 302 Power line filter and distributor that has great reputation in the far east. On almost every question I asked about this product, some guy gave me an answer: "A, this is a secret ingredient", or "sorry, can not reveal you these details" or even "check our web site!". What? Check our web site? Guys, what are you doing here...? Can you at least demonstrate the effectiveness of this unit? Answer: "Sorry, can not do that, too much work involved" and "Audiophiles from the far east are buying this units blind..." like, isn't it obvious that this is a superior device, why do you need to ask so many questions? This doesn't need any further comments...
                                    Last edited by Marcus; 05-15-2016, 11:40 AM.
                                    Source: Kuzma XL DC/Safir 9/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Signature; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Misho Myronov Wooden Pre; Power amp: Lamm 1.2 Reference; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli, Avalon Isis; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Power filter: P.I Audo: BUSS Depot; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                                      Comment

                                      • #10
                                        Originally posted by Marcus

                                        Yes I heard Zellaton with the CD and Vinyl and the sound was better with the latter. Still, this is Zellaton's attack on the state-of-the-art and they should at least show some promise like Martin Logan Neolith and Cesaro did for instance.
                                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15062[/ATTACH]
                                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15063[/ATTACH]
                                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15064[/ATTACH]


                                        Ah, the Isis...Heard them with the Spectral and Karan amplification. I slightly prefer Karan. I'm also waiting for the Saga but AFAIK they are still in the development stage, so we will not see this model in 2016 I think.

                                        Regarding Vertere, I can't say anything as it seems I missed that room...
                                        Many thanks for the feedback.

                                          Comment

                                          • #11
                                            Originally posted by Marcus

                                            Yes I heard Zellaton with the CD and Vinyl and the sound was better with the latter. Still, this is Zellaton's attack on the state-of-the-art and they should at least show some promise like Martin Logan Neolith and Cesaro did for instance.
                                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15062[/ATTACH]
                                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15063[/ATTACH]
                                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15064[/ATTACH]


                                            Ah, the Isis...Heard them with the Spectral and Karan amplification. I slightly prefer Karan. I'm also waiting for the Saga but AFAIK they are still in the development stage, so we will not see this model in 2016 I think.

                                            Regarding Vertere, I can't say anything as it seems I missed that room...
                                            Completely wired with Schnerzinger?
                                            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                                            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                                            ________________________________________

                                            -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                                            -Goldmund Telos 440 and 1000 Nextgen mono amps
                                            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                                            -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                                            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                                            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                                            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, vdh Colibri Master Signature, Mutech Hayabusa,
                                            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                                            -Assorted cables including Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna, Audience FrontRow; Audience FrontRow, Genesis Advanced Technologies , Goldmund and Ensemble Power Cords
                                            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.3+ platforms.

                                              Comment

                                              • #12
                                                Yes. On paper, this was a system to die for.
                                                Source: Kuzma XL DC/Safir 9/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Signature; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Misho Myronov Wooden Pre; Power amp: Lamm 1.2 Reference; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli, Avalon Isis; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Power filter: P.I Audo: BUSS Depot; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                                                  Comment

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