Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best sound at the Munich 2016 High-End show?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Best sound at the Munich 2016 High-End show?

    For the second time since I'm visiting Munich High-End shows, there is no question for me which system was sounding the best. It was the Living Voice Vox Palladian/Kondo/Neodio system. FYI, I don't like horn speakers at all, so it was also kind of a shock for me. This was one of the most realistic sounding systems I have heard in my life. It joins a very small group with the MBL Extreme (not on this year's show) and Avalon Isis. The "trick" of this presentation in order to hear this realism was to sit in the last two rows. In every other position this system sounded mediocre or good at best. In comparison all other systems sounded like Hi-Fi one way or the other...I expected much more from Zelaton, Cessaro, Magico and Goebel rooms.

    PS/No turntable or R2R in this room, only CDP (Neodio Origine)... Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000618.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	45.0 KB
ID:	14884
    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000619.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	61.4 KB
ID:	14885
    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000617.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	42.6 KB
ID:	14886
    Last edited by Marcus; 05-14-2016, 08:36 AM.
    Source: Kuzma XL DC, Kuzma 4Point 14 inch, Benz Micro LP-S MR; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: conrad-johnson GAT Series 2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART; Speakers: Avalon Time; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Signature & Thor SE; Cable system: Cardas Clear & Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power conditioner: P.I.Audio: UberBuss with Furutech FI-E30 NCF; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

  • #2
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post
    For the second time since I'm visiting Munich High-End shows, there is no question for me which system was sounding the best. It was the Living Voice Vox Palladian/Kondo/Neodio system. FYI, I don't like horn speakers at all, so it was also kind of a shock for me. This was one of the most realistic sounding systems I have heard in my life. It joins a very small group with the MBL Extreme (not on this year's show) and Avalon Isis. The "trick" of this presentation in order to hear this realism was to sit in the last two rows. In every other position this system sounded mediocre or good at best. In comparison all other systems sounded like Hi-Fi one way or the other...I expected much more from Zelaton, Cessaro, Magico and Goebel rooms.

    PS/No turntable or R2R in this room, only CDP (Neodio Origine)... [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14884[/ATTACH]
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14885[/ATTACH]
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14886[/ATTACH]
    Hello Marcus, many thanks for feedback. Very interesting to read your comments especially the comparison with Avalon Isis and the Zellaton. May I ask if you heard the Zellaton with Vinyl or CD? Also, what amps have you heard the Isis with that have impressed you much? They are on my list along with the new Saga due out any day. Avalon speakers seem to get very little coverage at shows and also very few reviews....only 1 review of Isis ever!! Finally, did you get to the Vertere room by any chance?

    Comment


    • #3
      Marcus, did you make it through the other venue in Munich, Hi Fi Deluxe?
      Front End: Basis Audio Ovation / Rockport 6000 / VdH Colibri XCP Head Amp: Music Reference RM-4 Preamp: Audio Research SP-3 (Curcio) Power Amp: Marantz 8b Speakers: Quad ESL 57 (McCollum) Cable: DIY / Canare

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Marcus View Post
        For the second time since I'm visiting Munich High-End shows, there is no question for me which system was sounding the best. It was the Living Voice Vox Palladian/Kondo/Neodio system. FYI, I don't like horn speakers at all, so it was also kind of a shock for me. This was one of the most realistic sounding systems I have heard in my life. It joins a very small group with the MBL Extreme (not on this year's show) and Avalon Isis. The "trick" of this presentation in order to hear this realism was to sit in the last two rows. In every other position this system sounded mediocre or good at best. In comparison all other systems sounded like Hi-Fi one way or the other...I expected much more from Zelaton, Cessaro, Magico and Goebel rooms.

        PS/No turntable or R2R in this room, only CDP (Neodio Origine)... [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14884[/ATTACH]
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14885[/ATTACH]
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]n14886[/ATTACH]
        Funny you mention the Neodio. Vladamir used Neodio in the LAMM/Wilson room a couple of years ago at CES and thought it sounded much better than the turntable. Had a long talk with the designer at that time; the one drawback back then was the Neodio would would only playback RBCD because the designer didn't believe in high-rez digital. I think he's changed his stance a little since then. I tried getting the piece for review but they didn't and still don't AFAIK have a US distributor. Nor do they seem according to their website to have huge worldwide distribution either. And the Neodio ain't cheap. But one of the best digital gear I've heard to date.
        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
        ________________________________________

        Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 phonostage; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/Lyra Atlas SL, Ortofon A95, Charisma Reference 2, vdh Colibri Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Fuuga cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, MPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

          Funny you mention the Neodio. Vladamir used Neodio in the LAMM/Wilson room a couple of years ago at CES and thought it sounded much better than the turntable. Had a long talk with the designer at that time; the one drawback back then was the Neodio would would only playback RBCD because the designer didn't believe in high-rez digital. I think he's changed his stance a little since then. I tried getting the piece for review but they didn't and still don't AFAIK have a US distributor. Nor do they seem according to their website to have huge worldwide distribution either. And the Neodio ain't cheap. But one of the best digital gear I've heard to date.
          According to The Audio Beat an updated version of the Neodio (Origine S2) was launched at Munich with an improved clock, new bottom plate and more substantial vibration reduction feet. Myles, would it be possible for you to expand on your impressions of it?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ashandger View Post

            According to The Audio Beat an updated version of the Neodio (Origine S2) was launched at Munich with an improved clock, new bottom plate and more substantial vibration reduction feet. Myles, would it be possible for you to expand on your impressions of it?
            Based on what you said, my comments might be on an out of date version. What I will say it was the most analog sounding DAC I had heard up to then. It didn't have the thinness, brightness and washed out sound I commonly associate with digital playback. The one CD that stuck out in my mind was the Fairfield Four album Standing in the Safety Zone. Here each of the voices had a real sense of body, delineation and separation of the singers and tonal differentiation of the different voices. Not to mention, a sense of space around the voices that most RBCD playback at least back then seemed to miss. It was just very easy on the ears.
            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
            ________________________________________

            Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 phonostage; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/Lyra Atlas SL, Ortofon A95, Charisma Reference 2, vdh Colibri Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Fuuga cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, MPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

            Comment


            • ashandger
              ashandger commented
              Editing a comment
              Great, many thanks for the feedback. That Fairfield Four is one of my fav albums musically and for testing. Great to know that it sounded wonderful through the Neodio.

            • MylesBAstor
              MylesBAstor commented
              Editing a comment
              Great, great album. Played it for Mark a couple of RMAF's ago and know he was impressed too! Them old guys still have chops!

          • #7
            After seeing pictures coming back from Munich I have determined this is THE audio show to attend. Munich 2017 here I come.
            Marty

            Comment


            • allenh
              allenh commented
              Editing a comment
              Totally agree. On my bucket list!

          • #8
            Originally posted by ashandger View Post

            Hello Marcus, many thanks for feedback. Very interesting to read your comments especially the comparison with Avalon Isis and the Zellaton. May I ask if you heard the Zellaton with Vinyl or CD? Also, what amps have you heard the Isis with that have impressed you much? They are on my list along with the new Saga due out any day. Avalon speakers seem to get very little coverage at shows and also very few reviews....only 1 review of Isis ever!! Finally, did you get to the Vertere room by any chance?
            Yes I heard Zellaton with the CD and Vinyl and the sound was better with the latter. Still, this is Zellaton's attack on the state-of-the-art and they should at least show some promise like Martin Logan Neolith and Cesaro did for instance.
            Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000612.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	53.0 KB
ID:	15062
            Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000611.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	50.4 KB
ID:	15063
            Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000613.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	45.2 KB
ID:	15064


            Ah, the Isis...Heard them with the Spectral and Karan amplification. I slightly prefer Karan. I'm also waiting for the Saga but AFAIK they are still in the development stage, so we will not see this model in 2016 I think.

            Regarding Vertere, I can't say anything as it seems I missed that room...

            Last edited by Marcus; 05-15-2016, 11:19 AM.
            Source: Kuzma XL DC, Kuzma 4Point 14 inch, Benz Micro LP-S MR; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: conrad-johnson GAT Series 2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART; Speakers: Avalon Time; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Signature & Thor SE; Cable system: Cardas Clear & Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power conditioner: P.I.Audio: UberBuss with Furutech FI-E30 NCF; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by Rob View Post
              Marcus, did you make it through the other venue in Munich, Hi Fi Deluxe?
              I did and was disappointed. Nothing to write home about.

              But my main disappointment was the JMf room (the sound of the system sucked btw), where I tried to get more info about their PCD 302 Power line filter and distributor that has great reputation in the far east. On almost every question I asked about this product, some guy gave me an answer: "A, this is a secret ingredient", or "sorry, can not reveal you these details" or even "check our web site!". What? Check our web site? Guys, what are you doing here...? Can you at least demonstrate the effectiveness of this unit? Answer: "Sorry, can not do that, too much work involved" and "Audiophiles from the far east are buying this units blind..." like, isn't it obvious that this is a superior device, why do you need to ask so many questions? This doesn't need any further comments...
              Last edited by Marcus; 05-15-2016, 11:40 AM.
              Source: Kuzma XL DC, Kuzma 4Point 14 inch, Benz Micro LP-S MR; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: conrad-johnson GAT Series 2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART; Speakers: Avalon Time; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Signature & Thor SE; Cable system: Cardas Clear & Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power conditioner: P.I.Audio: UberBuss with Furutech FI-E30 NCF; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                Yes I heard Zellaton with the CD and Vinyl and the sound was better with the latter. Still, this is Zellaton's attack on the state-of-the-art and they should at least show some promise like Martin Logan Neolith and Cesaro did for instance.
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15062[/ATTACH]
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15063[/ATTACH]
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15064[/ATTACH]


                Ah, the Isis...Heard them with the Spectral and Karan amplification. I slightly prefer Karan. I'm also waiting for the Saga but AFAIK they are still in the development stage, so we will not see this model in 2016 I think.

                Regarding Vertere, I can't say anything as it seems I missed that room...
                Many thanks for the feedback.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                  Yes I heard Zellaton with the CD and Vinyl and the sound was better with the latter. Still, this is Zellaton's attack on the state-of-the-art and they should at least show some promise like Martin Logan Neolith and Cesaro did for instance.
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15062[/ATTACH]
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15063[/ATTACH]
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]n15064[/ATTACH]


                  Ah, the Isis...Heard them with the Spectral and Karan amplification. I slightly prefer Karan. I'm also waiting for the Saga but AFAIK they are still in the development stage, so we will not see this model in 2016 I think.

                  Regarding Vertere, I can't say anything as it seems I missed that room...
                  Completely wired with Schnerzinger?
                  Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                  Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                  ________________________________________

                  Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 phonostage; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/Lyra Atlas SL, Ortofon A95, Charisma Reference 2, vdh Colibri Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Fuuga cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, MPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Yes. On paper, this was a system to die for.
                    Source: Kuzma XL DC, Kuzma 4Point 14 inch, Benz Micro LP-S MR; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: conrad-johnson GAT Series 2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART; Speakers: Avalon Time; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Signature & Thor SE; Cable system: Cardas Clear & Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power conditioner: P.I.Audio: UberBuss with Furutech FI-E30 NCF; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X