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  • Horns with house attached

    In a seemingly ordinary suburban living room in a1920s house

    Untitled by jdza, on Flickr

    A quad amped 4 way horn speaker system

    Untitled by jdza, on Flickr

    In the odd shaped room behind the door between the horns

    DSCN5332 by jdza, on Flickr

    Front end

    Studer A80 R/SABC with Mark Levinson audio electronics

    DSCN5323 by jdza, on Flickr

    Thorens Reference turntable with EMT,fidelity Research and Koetsu arms

    DSCN5322 by jdza, on Flickr

    Cartridges

    IMG_0238 by jdza, on Flickr


    Custom built tube pre amplifier by Valve Audio

    DSCN5325 by jdza, on Flickr

    Digital,Crossover , Power Amplifiers and special magical African dust

    DSCN5326 by jdza, on Flickr

    Speakers like these are not "off the shelf". Mid bass horn being collected in 2005. Another 360 mile trip to collect the other channel

    iwatainvolvojpg3jb by jdza, on Flickr

  • #2
    Wow, think that's the first time saw some of those pictures! What was that odd shaped room originally intended for?
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
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    • #3
      Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
      Wow, think that's the first time saw some of those pictures! What was that odd shaped room originally intended for?
      It was always designated as what the Architect called an "equipment room" . Their are apparently rules for such things so the door to this is a 'fire door" and weighs close to 300 lb. It provides total isolation-even the key hole is blocked off.

      The original intent was to get all equipment out of sight as I had already hijacked the lounge.Another unintended benefit is of course that the equipment is totally isolated from airborn vibration. With the arrival of the Reel to a reel machines another benefit to this separation became apparent:.Equipment generated noise.There is a reason most studios had "machine rooms" where theIir tape recorders resided as the mastering machines can get a little noisy in operation.

      The outside of the horns and equipment room.Bottom right window

      DSCN5498 by jdza, on Flickr
      Last edited by JDZA; 05-02-2016, 03:05 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Very cool! Do you know how low your bass horns go? Which drivers and what do you use for crossover?
        david
        Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
        Distribution: NEODIO

        Special Sales: van den Hul
        Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

        Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
        http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
        http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by david k View Post
          Very cool! Do you know how low your bass horns go? Which drivers and what do you use for crossover?
          david
          Despite the size of the bass horn ,absolute bass extension was never a priority. My aim was to obtain the fastest,purest bass response to at least 1 octave above the bass crossover. At the same time the aim was to obtain the same sensitivity for the bass horns as for the compression drivers used higher up.Bass is -3db at 27 Hz and then due to horn cutoff, falling fast.

          Bass drivers are Altec Lansing 515 16 G. 10 of them. Again they were chosen for speed and higher top reach in preference to the heavier coned lower reaching 515E .They were supplied by the now defunct Iconic Corp but built by GPA. At the time I could choose the newer high power version(200W) or the older 75W version. I went for the latter.

          Bass response at the listening position 6 meters from the front wall and 5 metres from the back wall
          bass by jdza, on Flickr

          Crossover is entirely passive at line level. The Marchand XM 46.Settings are here.

          CROSSOVER by jdza, on Flickr

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JDZA View Post

            Despite the size of the bass horn ,absolute bass extension was never a priority. My aim was to obtain the fastest,purest bass response to at least 1 octave above the bass crossover. At the same time the aim was to obtain the same sensitivity for the bass horns as for the compression drivers used higher up.Bass is -3db at 27 Hz and then due to horn cutoff, falling fast.

            Bass drivers are Altec Lansing 515 16 G. 10 of them. Again they were chosen for speed and higher top reach in preference to the heavier coned lower reaching 515E .They were supplied by the now defunct Iconic Corp but built by GPA. At the time I could choose the newer high power version(200W) or the older 75W version. I went for the latter.

            I would have made the exact same choices, mid 30's is plenty specially when its real bass like this, beautiful! Can you share a bit more about what you have on the Iwatas and the rest of the system. Also what's the cartridge in the wooden EMT headshell? Sorry to bug you but well executed horn systems are rare and I think everyone here can benefit from your experience.

            david
            Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
            Distribution: NEODIO

            Special Sales: van den Hul
            Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

            Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
            http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
            http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

            Comment


            • #7
              As you know the most difficult area to cover with horns is not the bass(folded horns,tapped horns,sealed box etc.) but the midbass,roughly the decade 100Hz-1000Hz. By then folded horns are too coloured and marrying horn upper mid/tweeters with dynamic drivers a la JBL etc. IMO is just that-a box speaker with a horn tweeter (although superb results can be obtained but that is not what I was after). Crossing an Altec 515 to a 515 or 10/12 inch alternative type in a smaller horn felt daft and would bring those drivers too close to their upper knee. I also wanted to extend the compression drivers as low as possible without making the horn too long thus running into a WE type scenario. My choices were then double throated Goto type drivers or a much maligned,by then obsolete ,mid compression driver-the JBL 2490. It is unique in that it has a 3 inch throat. That made the math easy. Upscale the standard Iwata by 150%. The horn that resulted is the monster shown in the back of the car above. Others have calculated its cut off at 111Hz making it almost perfect for the 2490 whose output drops like a stone below 180 Hz. 11 Years later the 2490 is still going strong,unlike the upper mids (above 900Hz):

              Initially drivers were going to be JBL375 until they were dropped and destroyed during a service. I then took a plunge and replaced them with Gotos on special Goto made throats. They were magical but notes in eg piano pieces would just disappear. This bizarre behaviour combined with extreme fragility lead back to the JBL 375s,then 375s with 2450SL diaphragms, then JBL 2435 BE,then Aquaplassed 2435s and finally the TAD Td4003s that has been a constant fixture since.The 4003 is to me simply the best driver I have heard. It must not be confused with the 4001. The 4003 is in another class. I have 2 sets of Iwata mid horns for all these drivers. 2 inch and 1.5 inch.

              As the big upper mid Iwatas will beam despite the Berrilium TAD drivers reaching well beyond 20kHz ,I use Goto tweeters as a "spotlight" or filler for the sagging off axis response. They are aimed at the listening spot and are delicate,sweet and airy, Treble images tended too "hang around" the speakers though so I recently added a pair of rear firing JBL 2404 "baby butt" tweeters to "paint" the bass horns.These have a very wide dispersion ,though can be harsh when firing forward This has had a startling effect with cymbals beautifully floating in the soundstage.

              The cartridge was custom built by Blue Angel Audio. It was Andre Hanekom's take on an EMT type cartridge. It has no parts in common with an EMT though and was built from scratch for me. At the time it incorporated everything Blue Angel has learnt in cartridge construction. It is beautifully built magical piece although it is incredibly unforgiving of arm resonances,poor pressings and recordings. AFAIK it remains a one-off

              Last edited by JDZA; 05-02-2016, 01:24 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                There hasn't been any news from about Blue Angel for a very long while and unfortunately I never had the opportunity to try one of his creations myself. I can understand your transitions from various JBLs to the TAD 4003, I had them installed in a vintage pair of Westlakes, a big step up from the JBL drivers they came with. If you're still playing I recommend that you try the Vitavox S2, you might have to slightly roll off the upper end but the rest is very linear, might help with your beaming issue.

                While I agree that low bass is simpler to deal with and integrate than the mid bass but only when you know what you're doing, I've seen too many poor implementations to call it easy.

                Thanks for sharing,

                david
                Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
                Distribution: NEODIO

                Special Sales: van den Hul
                Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

                Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
                http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
                http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

                Comment


                • #9
                  Johan:

                  You'r my hero!

                  Comment


                  • Rob
                    Rob commented
                    Editing a comment
                    mine too!

                • #10
                  Dedication is one of the things I admire most in people. JDZA, you've definitely got that in spades. Your build never ceases to amaze me.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Nice, interesting set up.
                    Main System: Sources - Digital - Moon Andromeda CDP, Esoteric P5/D5 SACDP, AMR DP777 DAC, Dell PC. Analogue - SME Model 20, Graham Phantom 1.5, Ortofon 7500, Technics 1200 (heavily modified), Triplanar 7, VDH Gold, Revox B77 2, various analogue tuners. Amplification - BAT VK52se pre, Passlabs Xono, Music Reference RM200 mk1, BAT VK75. Speakers - Anthony Gallo Ref 3.5. Tables - Clearlight Audio. Cables - Altlas, Audience, Analysis +, Wireworld, XLO. Mains -Dedicated Spur only.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      You must be one of the few people on planet Earth using a quality one off cart ! Congrats.
                      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
                        You must be one of the few people on planet Earth using a quality one off cart ! Congrats.
                        The most amazing thing about this system is the way people got involved in its creation. What one would expect to be jaded Architects,Structural Engineers and Building Contractors used to building shopping centres,factories and office blocks suddenly got huge grins on their faces and fell in with this little house remodelling. My, then 72 year old, father in law who painstakingly built all the wood horns in his garage for a bottle of wine and a heartfealt thank you.

                        Driver advice beyond what one could expect from Iconic,drivers through members at Lansing Heritage. Problems with SET amps and noise led to a few e-mails and a number of emails from manufacturers along the lines of " I would love to sell you an amp but I simply do not have something suitable for your needs". One even forwarded an enquiry to Srajan at 6 Moons who recommended what I am using today.BTW what was recommended was not that manufacturer's products. They all got nothing from it,just giving me a friendly nudge in the right direction.

                        Small manufacturers like Valve Audio and Blue Angel working day and night to keep their regular lines going accepted requests like " Can you build me the best ,most quiet pre amplifier with the best parts available or the best cartridge you can possibly make to work in the EMT Banana arm? " They did and charged me probably less than it cost them. There was the EMT arm built by its maker while his wife was dying. The apologetic e mails why there is a one day delay because they went for desperate treatments. Then finally the email of "the arm is ready and my wife died last night." We mourned with him .

                        I could have simply walked into a high end boutique and received a cup of special coffe and a huge bill. But I did not and that enriched my life so much. That is why I ,an intensly private person, plaster my house and system over the soulless Internet. Besides all the Spam and opinionated "Shoot off the cuff" critics are real people with real knowledge and willingness to help. When a proud Audiophile in Italy sends me photos of a stack of Iwatas like mine I am happy to have passed on a little of the inspiration systems like those of Karel Schees,Marcel Rogerro and Rene Simmond have given to me.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by JDZA View Post

                          The most amazing thing about this system is the way people got involved in its creation. What one would expect to be jaded Architects,Structural Engineers and Building Contractors used to building shopping centres,factories and office blocks suddenly got huge grins on their faces and fell in with this little house remodelling. My, then 72 year old, father in law who painstakingly built all the wood horns in his garage for a bottle of wine and a heartfealt thank you.

                          Driver advice beyond what one could expect from Iconic,drivers through members at Lansing Heritage. Problems with SET amps and noise led to a few e-mails and a number of emails from manufacturers along the lines of " I would love to sell you an amp but I simply do not have something suitable for your needs". One even forwarded an enquiry to Srajan at 6 Moons who recommended what I am using today.BTW what was recommended was not that manufacturer's products. They all got nothing from it,just giving me a friendly nudge in the right direction.

                          Small manufacturers like Valve Audio and Blue Angel working day and night to keep their regular lines going accepted requests like " Can you build me the best ,most quiet pre amplifier with the best parts available or the best cartridge you can possibly make to work in the EMT Banana arm? " They did and charged me probably less than it cost them. There was the EMT arm built by its maker while his wife was dying. The apologetic e mails why there is a one day delay because they went for desperate treatments. Then finally the email of "the arm is ready and my wife died last night." We mourned with him .

                          I could have simply walked into a high end boutique and received a cup of special coffe and a huge bill. But I did not and that enriched my life so much. That is why I ,an intensly private person, plaster my house and system over the soulless Internet. Besides all the Spam and opinionated "Shoot off the cuff" critics are real people with real knowledge and willingness to help. When a proud Audiophile in Italy sends me photos of a stack of Iwatas like mine I am happy to have passed on a little of the inspiration systems like those of Karel Schees,Marcel Rogerro and Rene Simmond have given to me.
                          Beautiful, inspiring, and what a magnificent homage to these dedicated folks, and obviously, to you as well, for the vision to put this together. I've seen photos of the room on the web before, but never the story behind the all of this.
                          Thank you for posting.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Now if that is not cool, I don't know what is..Amazing system! OMG! I see a couple of Fidelity Research cartridges hiding in there. I have a couple as well. My MC-201 is in play now (love it!) and my 202 is NOS
                            Primary 2 channel stuff: Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass Labs X600.5 amps, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, Dunlavy SC4s, VPI HRX Reference w Avenger mag drive and Reference footers, Gimbal Fatboy, Yamaha GT2000 for Mono, Miyajima Kansui, Miyajima ZERO, Fidelity Research MC-201 & 202, VPI ADS, Vendetta Research SCP-1, Audio Note UK- 3.1X II balanced DAC, Meridian Sooloos, Western Electric Speaker wire, mostly diy balanced interconnects, Furutech Power Cords

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